Fuh Yuan retracts $299 Wal-Mart HD DVD statement
That sound you're hearing is your hopes of a $299 HD DVD player anytime in the immediate future deflating, that is, is Fuh Yuan is to be believed this time around. Unfortunately, it seems that the firm pulled the trigger a bit too soon on a hopeful order, as a recent retraction on the company's website insinuates that Wal-Mart simply inquired about their ability to "provide a schedule" along with "cost and quantity" details for Wally World to evaluate. Currently, it seems that the "capacity is still under consideration," but it did leave the door open to believe that this idea may still be churning in the background by cordially inviting anyone with an up-to-snuff manufacturing facility to ping them for more details. The good news is that a sub-$300 HD DVD player isn't a matter of "if," it's just a matter of "when," and as long as Wal-Mart keeps burning down price barriers, we're sure it'll surface (arguably) soon.[Thanks, Jimmy]
Update: Wal-mart concurs, stating today that "The article... was full of inaccuracies and we had no participation in it," and "Most of the facts, including the purchase, were untrue."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dave @ Apr 27th 2007 1:08AM
LOL
Baccusboy @ Apr 27th 2007 1:32AM
This just in!
Fuh Yuan will be making 10,000,000 HD-DVD players! That's right, TEN MILLION! Wal-Mart has decided that Blu-ray sucks, and they aren't going to sell it. Furthermore, they can make a higher profit off of a $199 HD-DVD player than a $400 Sony.
The good news is, they're going to be sold by Christmas time. Yup... all 10 million of them! Perhaps they'll need to make another 5 million more for everyone who can't get one, and has to wait until New Years.
Oh boy, BR is really going to die now.
I'm sorry I don't have any facts to back up this rumor, but as been proven so far, if I start my own rumor, it can be printed as truth everywhere, and just cite itself on various HD-DVD fanboy websites.
Rob @ Apr 27th 2007 1:45AM
Wow that was a long read. How about a wal-mart rep saying the deal is untrue. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2122715,00.asp. I find it hard to believe that an hddvd player could be produced in Mass quanities anytime soon. Toshiba has over-shot estimates, there for under produced diodes. They said 1 million for the first physical year, but it was really only 250,000. However BD is in mini mass production right now and is ready to go full scale by nov. I'm sure you have read this in your travels..http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200704/07-037E/index.html. Note they are talking about BD only diodes. Wal-Mart has said they are carrying they new cheaper Sony model this summer. With a BDA company offering a $299 CPU player this summer for the Chinese market. I would expect the sony model to be under the $599 price that was quoted. Because sony can fill a huge order for wal mart themselves by this summer; and the most expensive part of the BD player is down to $8 U.s.. They would be able to sell them to wal-mart for $75-$100. If your saying that hddvd players from Fuh Yaun will only number 10,000 by Oct-ish. How many $399-$499 BRD players will have sold by then? I mean by the end of Dec there could be 5m BD players made every month. Why wouldn't Fuh Yaun pick up some of these cheap BD only diodes and put them in their HD/BD Brodcoms board players that they are putting together with the loaders right now? Especally if it means they can fill a huge order to wal-mart for next generation players?
Since Sammy and Toshiba make their drives at the same plant, I would expect a hybrid from tosh in the future. 10,000-70,000 Cheap Hddvd players coming in oct-dec. Isn't going to bring hddvd back at this point. The market will be flooded with so many BD players by then. If you don't believe me on the Tosh hybrid check this out. Onkyo has said that ther are re-thinking their decision to back hddvd exclusivley . http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53628&var=story. I wonder why?
Nfinity @ Apr 27th 2007 2:23AM
Rob, I would like this info to be confirmed really but you have to understand this is how business works in general. If wal-mart confirmed this, they would lose money. Simple as that. Pay attention what Wal-mart spokesperson said
"When asked to comment specifically on a statement appearing on Fuh Yuan's site, which implies the retailer is at least interested in ordering the players, the spokesperson said she could not comment on or disclose Wal-Mart's internal business with suppliers and our orders."
So how is she confirming that the rest of the stuff is untrue? Something is not logical here, don't you agree?
Second, I really don't have the energy to go into discussion why Blu-Ray is more expensive to make, but it simply is and Sony has a LONG way to go (meaning selling a lot of units) to be able to get out with sub $400 BD player.
The links you posted are saying nothing really. Shiroishi Semiconductor Inc is just throwing numbers how much laser diodes they made since 1986 and also it says that it has the capacity to manufacture blue diodes at certain price point and quantity, whether they will get orders or not is not known.
What you are talking about cheap Blu-Ray players and them being able to produce $50-$75 BD players just boggles my mind really. Don't you think we would see players like that by now? At least cheaper..second Sony would be actually making money on PS3 instead of losing an arm and a leg. You are just speculating Rob.
Now, bare with me, I'm not saying that AVS Forum guys are dead on accurate, but I do believe this deal is going to happen and Wal-mart announcement is just business tactic. After all we will see by October now won't we.
Here's what I think will happen. Wal-mart will get first several thousand units probably around October, sell them at $299 to test out waters. If they see that units are going for that price well, they will probably keep it at $299 or go with $249 discount. But if the units start off slow before the rest of the players are completed I'm pretty sure they will sell them for $199, even possibly $179.
It's simple, these HD-DVD players should be around $50 a piece. 2million units/100 million = $50 a piece. Of course we don't know full quantities yet and delivery times and overall order details, but knowing that HD-DVD player is $50 in manufacturing says GOOD THINGS. It means that they can sell those units for $100-$150 and still have profit.
Onkyo thing you mentioned is quite normal. You do realize that as long as companies are NEUTRAL, HD-DVD wins. Onkyo is just making a business move. They saw Samsung, LG and others coming out with dual format players and they are thinking, hey why don't we just make it dual, make one unit and sell that and make clean profit. No comparison there. I'll tell you one thing, if Fox goes neutral it's pretty much over for Blu-Ray, mark my words.
Read AVS Forums, you will see more up-to-date information from the community there as a lot of them actually work for one side or the other and are actually involved more in this war then regular Joe.
MAK1981 @ Apr 27th 2007 6:40AM
Also telling is from the same article Rob posted.
"We are sorry to correct the statement that we have two million HD-DVD players order from Wal-Mart and manufactured by China Great Wall Group," Fuh Yuan said. "The actuality is that we had not received yet. We are asked to provide the schedule to Wal-Mart and cost to determine the quantity even more than two million, if the cost is good enough and timing is correct. So the capacity is under consideration. Any qualified manufactured base group will be welcome."
This goes along with what the first poster, Nfinity, described. A deal is in place, and final details are being made. I don't know if I'm better to judge since I'm not a fanboy, but I'm just reading the facts you both are presenting, and I think Nfinity's right.
larry @ Apr 27th 2007 8:59AM
More news to support HD DVD hardware sales:
http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2007/04/25/afx3653006.html
Also Sony's father of the PS3 has been forced to resign.
Below is from today's Wall Street Journal
"While many game executives say Mr. Kutaragi's ambitious vision with PlayStation 3 still could pay off, the console is in an unexpectedly weak position compared with less expensive systems from Microsoft Corp. and Nintendo Co. In March, U.S. retailers sold 259,000 Nintendo Wii consoles, 199,000 Microsoft Xbox 360s and 130,000 PlayStation 3s, according to NPD Group Inc.
Instead of being the hoped-for cornerstone of a recovery for Sony, videogame-related losses for Sony's year ended in March are expected to amount to $2 billion, or double original forecasts. That is expected to drag down the company's overall performance despite improvements in other businesses, such as televisions. Sony will report full-year earnings next month."
Couple this with the fact Toshiba is willing to license their technology to Chinese manufacturers (affordable hardware). Sony is losing tons of money because of the failed launch of the PS3 ($2billion instead of $1billion projected loss).
Rob Enderle's article makes sense:
http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html
horngreen @ Apr 27th 2007 10:05AM
and Wally said, "I'll be back".
AG23 @ Apr 27th 2007 1:53PM
Does this really matter?
Considering that most movie studios support Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD, MOST people are not going to buy HD-DVD players simply on the price because the content is not going to be there.
In the short term, I am sure HD-DVD will do fine. But in the long term as more and more exclusive blockbuster titles come out for Blu-Ray, smart consumers will compare the content and notice that HD-DVD will be lacking the best titles.
and ultimately content, and not the price of the player(HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) is what is going to determine who wins this war.
Xyzzy @ Apr 27th 2007 4:30PM
"Considering that most movie studios support Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD, MOST people are not going to buy HD-DVD players simply on the price because the content is not going to be there."
That'd be all well and good if it were true, but it's not even CLOSE to being true. While it's true that BD has Sony, Disney and Fox (although Fox hasn't released anything in a long time....), HD DVD has a lot of studios:
Universal
Weinstein
First Look Studios
Warner Brothers
Paramount
Dreamworks
HBO
Discovery
Magnolia
(there's a few more smaller ones as well)
Granted that they aren't all exclusive, but the non-exclusive studios are making more money releasing on both (Warner Brothers has stated this publicly) so at that point the price of the player DOES become a huge factor since a large number of movies are available on both platforms.
Not to say that BD won't "win," but it's really not cut and dry in the least.
WallyB @ Apr 27th 2007 2:26PM
I'm back. ;-)
Kevin Murphy @ Apr 27th 2007 5:35PM
Well, in California, $299 retail = $324 out the door. I can get a Toshiba A2 today from Amazon for only $18 more, no tax, free shipping.
Andrew @ Apr 27th 2007 5:43PM
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6436066.html
TWICE, 4/24/2007 11:17:00 AM
In other product developments, Onkyo USA unveiled one new Onkyo-brand DVD player and three Onkyo-brand HTiBs, said it is reevaluating its Onkyo-brand DVD strategy, and is on track to offer its first HD DVD player later this year. It will carry the Onkyo brand name.
The company has no major changes planned in the Onkyo brands retail-oriented distribution strategy, Wasek added.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Apr 27th 2007 7:40PM
First of all, keep in mind, I am NOT commenting on which format is the Better one.
The reality is, one of the Blu-ray players is also bought as a Game console, and some of those customers are really spending their money on
40+ dollar games, not 20+ dollar movies.
So knowing the exact breakdown of Blu-ray players; Those PS3s bought strictly as a BD player and those bought strictly as a Game console, is unknown, and trying to lock down a hard and fast number of the Blu-ray players that are out there with customers that will be buying a semi-steady amount of movies is kind of a soft number.
The numbers that aren't so soft though, and the ONLY numbers that matter to the Studios that produce and make profit from Disc movie sales are
that Blu-ray discs are selling through at a Much higher rate than HD DVD discs, even though there was a 2 month lag in the release of players for Blu-ray.
If I produce Part type A, and Part type A sells better, what is my incentive to switch to making part type B when the current profit on Sales is shown to be less, and I also know that if part type B loses to the format war, I'll undoubtedly sell lots and lots more of Part type A?
The answer is simple; NONE.
No blu-ray only Studio will be switching over to the format that has less sell through and inhibits their current sell through and price points by lingering in the market; it's just a bad business move, and these companies are run by business people.
In summary, only if HD DVD disc sales increase beyond blu-ray disc sales will there be a business incentive for companies to consider going neutral or locking out blu-ray, and with there being more studios currently locking out HD DVD, as well as those studios being the biggest Studios with releases this year like the spiderman trilogy and the Pirates trilogy, the likelihood of HD DVD discs sales overtaking Blu-ray disc sales is grim at best.
That is the reality as it is now, and only someone basing their views on emotion and not market facts would come to the conclusion that HD DVD will win the format war.
Mr_Fizzlepop @ Apr 27th 2007 7:50PM
Additionally, when you consider that anyone buying a HD DVD player recently has been given a rebate for 5 Free HD DVD discs, the Disc sales numbers on HD DVD look horrible.
Larry @ Apr 28th 2007 1:43PM
Those free dvds are not counted in the sales charts.
Rob @ Apr 28th 2007 3:18AM
"That'd be all well and good if it were true, but it's not even CLOSE to being true. While it's true that BD has Sony, Disney and Fox (although Fox hasn't released anything in a long time....)"
Really, FOX hasen't relased any movies latley? Really hey? Wow you are crazy! What about: A Night at the Museum and Eragon? Is lying the only thing that will keep hddvd alive? It's called certian catalog titles aren't really selling on either foramat so their is no need for them right now. However, catalog titles are the only good exclusive movies that are coming from hddvd exclusive studios, especially with the way the Box office looks so far this year, and for the rest. Alpha Dog is a Universal movie that is coming May 1. By pre-orders on amazon.com, no one really want's to see it. In fact less people than a Disney catalog like: Pirates 1 or 2, or Apocalypto, another Disney(BVHE) movie. Face it, the hddvd movie catalog consists of good movies that come out on BD as well. Catalog titles most people have. Sprinkled with really bad exclusive new movies, unless your blided by red that is, like Feast and Alpha Dog. I personally didn't like Smoken' Aces/Good Sheap but I know a lot of people did. I'm sure a lot of pepole that own a BD player probably would have bought them.
Universal can only sit there and ignore that they would be selling 3x more most likley if they realeased BD's(probably more becasue this war would technically be over at that point). It's not looking good for Universal and The Weinstein CO to stay exclusive to hddvd much longer. Esecially if all that hddvd has at this point to try and drive their product into homes in a mass way is 10,000 cheap HDdvd players in oct to test the water!! Like it or not, 100,000+ potential BD players are sold every month in N/A alone, and Sony has a $599 BD player coming out for sure this June/July, that WILL be selling at wal-mart.
There is also a $299 CPU BD player/DVD burner hitting the Chinese market soon, that would cost about the same to produce as a stand alone BD player(not a PS3, although that was good, seriously when I'm down I will think of that. You know that PS3 has something called a CEll CPU and the RSX, and Wifi, and a 60gig HDD, right Nfinity, all of these are not in a stand alone, which makes a stand alone so much cheaper to make, but agin, thanks I haven't laughed like that in a long time).........
Hddvd players are selling for $299 right now if you count the 5 free movies, which any consumer does...
Plus this is even worse news for 10,000 cheap players in Oct to be a factor at this point....
"Kevin Murphy @ Apr 27th 2007 5:35PM
Well, in California, $299 retail = $324 out the door. I can get a Toshiba A2 today from Amazon for only $18 more, no tax, free shipping."
By Oct a Tosh will be $299 in stores and $199- on amazon.com. Who in there right mind will buy a $199 Fuh Yaun player when a Tosh will be the same price? And will Most likley still being sold with 5, mabye 10 free movies! This is a clearance phase for hddvd, the next step is Tosh offering a hybrid player. Just like Onkyo,http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53628&var=story... Onkyo, the only other CE co besides M$(isn't that a super basic Tosh?). That said they were going to make Hddvd exclusivley(no BD drive, I know HP makes an Hddvd only drive, ect....) at CES this year.
Xyzzy @ Apr 28th 2007 10:06AM
"Really, FOX hasen't relased any movies latley? Really hey? Wow you are crazy! What about: A Night at the Museum and Eragon? Is lying the only thing that will keep hddvd alive?"
Sorry, I meant to say Fox WON'T BE RELEASING ANYTHING FOR A LONG TIME. Look at the release schedule -- all of teir promised titles have been pulled and there's nothing scheduled to be released anymore.
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html
Kevin Murphy @ Apr 28th 2007 9:32PM
Clearance, my ass. The fact is that Blu costs too much to make, even with another year's delay. This isn't a clearance, this is Sony's ears getting boxed. Most PS3 owners aren't buying discs (there are 3 million PS3s out there and only 1 million _total_ BD discs sold). Sony is eating their subsidy. (PS3 is also failing as a game machine, but I digress.)
When the PS3-based bump in sales is long past, and it's down to stand-alone vs stand-alone, it'll be Fox scrambing after the HD DVD market.
It's not so much that I favor HD DVD, I just hate hype, and Blu-ray's advantages are almost all hype.
Greg @ Apr 28th 2007 1:50PM
Hmmmmmmmmm.....
I have to ask. Does it even MATTER which one of these formats "wins"? Clearly things are moving in a digital download direction and it won't be long before BOTH of these formats are considered obsolete. Their lifespan has already been cut short. Certainly shorter then the existing DVD format. I think of both of these as more akin to Laser Disc players. Nice to have, but ultimately will be collecting dust, sooner rather then later. And who wants to invest in THAT kind of limited prospect?
Kevin Murphy @ Apr 28th 2007 9:39PM
Greg--
Most music is still sold on CD. Download is fine, but people over, say, 30, feel more comfortable with physical media. And many people of all ages do not want to trust anything important to a hard drive. They still sell quite a few printed books, too.
Download is fine, and I like it for some things, but it won't replace anything for at least a decade. If then.