PS3 outsells the HD DVD add-on 5 to 1
Initial sales numbers are in and it appears that the PS3 has outsold the HD DVD add on by 5 to 1. Of course this doesn't mean that everyone who bought a PS3 will use it as a Blu-ray player and we don't think many will be surprised by this. The PS3 has sold every unit ship at 197,000 units, compared to the HD DVD add on drive at 42,000 units. We're not sure how many HD DVD add ons were shipped but at least a few online retailers have them in stock. Although this is interesting, the relevance to the outcome of the format war is in question. Obviously most people bought a PS3 to play games and everyone bought the add on to watch movies. The real question is why Sony and Microsoft went different directions. While Microsoft doesn't offer the Xbox360 with an internal HD DVD drive Sony doesn't offer a PS3 without Blu-ray. Why both Sony and Microsoft don't offer the next generation movie formats as a premium option for their players is beyond us. If they did then these numbers would have more significance, but regardless the BDA will be bragging to the content creators that they have sold more "Blu-ray players" than HD DVD, but of course that will only work for so long if all those PS3 owners don't buy any movies.[Via HighDefDigest.com]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Gary @ Dec 15th 2006 8:52AM
Technically the story is and isnot correct, discounting Japan, PS3 had sold 197,000 units and the HD-DVD add on had sold 42,000 units in the US, but what about the Europe? theses figures should be counted in with the overall figure because the add-on is available in the Europe and the PS3 is not currently available, this should bring the figure up to about 65-70k if not more.
Talkstr8t @ Dec 15th 2006 6:41PM
> Technically the story is and isnot correct, discounting Japan, PS3 had sold 197,000 units and the HD-DVD add on had sold 42,000 units in the US, but what about the Europe?
Idiot. It hasn't been released in Europe, while there are 90K more PS3's sold at launch in Japan, with 10's of K's more every week since. And Sony will continue to sell out every PS3 they can make through mid-2007 (6M by then), while HD-DVD add-on sales will flatline after the holidays. By Spring PS3 will have outsold HD-DVD add-ons by a factor of 20 or more.
Jason @ Dec 15th 2006 9:20AM
the real question just like the game machines themselves is content. The largest selling movies of the past 20-30 years are not available in high definition. If one of those killer franchises (SW, Titanic, LOTR) picks one format exclusively over the other, this little skirmish will be all over and fast.
WallyB @ Dec 15th 2006 9:24AM
What a surprise that this was posted by Ben "Blu-Ray" Drawbaugh. After the gushing on the last podcast I thought HD-DVD would die overnight. Not exactly.
Smeagol @ Dec 15th 2006 9:28AM
The difference is that PS3 sales are limited by production, whereas, HD-DVD add is no as much.. its just a dumb drive (ie. no video processing.. its just reads the data).
TommiWan @ Dec 15th 2006 9:46AM
You are not comparing apples to apples. You eluded to this in the article, but a major point is that we don't know what percentage of PS3 owners are actually using their blu ray, whereas every HD DVD owner could be considered as using their player as that is the only reason they bought it.
Something else to consider is that just because sony has sold every system they've put out, that doesn't mean half of them aren't still for sale on ebay and local classifieds around the country. I can go on craigslist and point out a ton in my area alone (New in the box)
Bottom line. PS3 sales do NOT equal Blu Ray acceptance, where as HD DVD sales (since it is an add on) do represent HD DVD acceptance.
Kraig @ Dec 15th 2006 10:01AM
One thing to consider is that EVERYONE buying the HD-DVD add-on is buying it to watch HD-DVD movies. It's impossible to tell how many PS3 owners actually are purchsing Blu-Ray DVD's as well.
Mike @ Dec 15th 2006 10:11AM
I wonder if there are any figures out there telling which percentage of PS3 owners have an HDTV. If the numbers are low, then that doesn't really help the BRD camp at all.
You can be sure everyone who purchases the add-on has an HDTV and will be utilizing it to its fullest extent.
I'm getting an add-on next week and am absolutely thrilled.
BTW, the killer "app" is LOTR and it hits HD-DVD in the spring. Is that enough to end this war?
zombieflanders @ Dec 15th 2006 10:22AM
The attach rate for the HD DVD and 2006 X360's was less than 2%. Not very good. For total 360's, it drops way below 1%.
"BTW, the killer "app" is LOTR and it hits HD-DVD in the spring. Is that enough to end this war?"
Yeah, nice try buddy. First of all, New Line is part of neutral studio Warner. Second of all, Peter Jackson's official LOTR site tells a different story:
http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_400_hv_limiteddvd.html
"WHEN IS THE LORD OF THE RINGS GOING TO BE RELEASED IN HIGH DEFINITION (EITHER HD-DVD OR BLU-RAY)?
The high definition formats that have recently launched offer exceptional picture and sound quality in addition to new interactive bonus feature capabilities. New Line Home Entertainment is committed to the high definition format and is very excited about the idea of releasing the Trilogy in the format. However, New Line is also committed to maximizing the capabilities of the technology to deliver a cutting edge high definition experience. This will take more time as well as the participation of the filmmakers to achieve. It is currently not scheduled for release until, at the earliest, 2008."
Take note of that last sentence. In the future you might want to try lying when there's not official evidence around to prove you wrong.
Denis @ Dec 15th 2006 10:18AM
and HD-DVD movies are outselling Blu-Ray movies. People are not buying PS3's to watch Blu-Ray movies.
fanboyH8R @ Dec 15th 2006 10:20AM
Hmm let's see here. One is a game console, the other is an accessory that plays dvds. Why and how could sales of these ever be compared? Only by a cheapshot PS3 Fanboy trying to stir the bucket. I'm sure whatever percentage of HD DVD drives purchased to total 360s sold is the same ratio of people who care at all about Bluray movies to total PS3s sold. This is not a coimparison of anything valuable, it's a holiday advertisement for PS3.
Chad @ Dec 15th 2006 11:33AM
Then why has Amazon.com already assigned an identification number to the trilogy in HD-DVD format? Search on amazon.com for lord of the rings hd dvd or just use the existing item number: B000E1MTX6.
rickenback @ Dec 15th 2006 11:45AM
Zombie-
You're a giant dork.
I wasn't trying to stir the pot or upset you, you're a fanboy, I should have known how easily you cry.
LOTR is already on amazon.com, I was going on that. I wasn't lying or swaying opinion.
Don't worry, I'm sure Blu-Ray will succeed, look at Sony's track record: BetaMax, MiniDisc, UMD, they can't all be failures, right?
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 2:07PM
The attach rate for the HD DVD and 2006 X360's was less than 2%. Not very good. For total 360's, it drops way below 1%.
I would say the attach rate of X360 add on (in the US anyways as NPD, the firm that provided the results for the above article is calculating US sales) is about 1% (about 4 million US X360 and 42K US Add-on). As far as numbers for the rest of the world, thats anyones guess since those numbers arent in and its a different situation.
Larry @ Dec 15th 2006 10:22AM
Whatever you may think of Ben's leanings the number is kinda disappointing at first glance. I do not believe Europe has received the HD DVD add on as of yet. The question I have is what percentage of Xbox360 owners have HDTVs? The drive could still reach 100,000 by the end of year which would be great for an add-on, but not so hot for HD DVD acceptance as a whole.
FrankTheCrank @ Dec 15th 2006 10:23AM
You would have to be pretty friggin RETARDED to buy a PS3 and not buy any Blu-Ray movies with it. That's one of it's features.
If only half the people who bought a PS3 pick up some Blu-Ray movies that's still twice as many as bought the HD-DVD drive for the 360.
You cannot get away from the fact that PS3 will increase the adoption rate of Blu-Ray...and if you argue against this point, you would have to be insane.
I, to date, have bought 6 Blu-Ray movies. I plan on buying more as the price comes down. I never pay more than $25 for a Blu-Ray movie. I will not buy anymore DVD's as it is an inferior format to Blu-Ray...
People who buy games, buy movies...plain and simple. Sony figured it out. It's not that difficult to understand.
Porsche 911 @ Dec 15th 2006 12:24PM
i agree with you 100%, this is the main reason why i bought the ps3
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 2:14PM
You would have to be pretty friggin RETARDED to buy a PS3 and not buy any Blu-Ray movies with it. That's one of it's features.
One of its features doesnt necessarily mean everyone will utilize it.
If only half the people who bought a PS3 pick up some Blu-Ray movies that's still twice as many as bought the HD-DVD drive for the 360.
If is the operative word there.
You cannot get away from the fact that PS3 will increase the adoption rate of Blu-Ray...and if you argue against this point, you would have to be insane.
That is still guesses and conjecture.
People who buy games, buy movies...plain and simple.
More accurately, people who buy games may buy movies.
Larry @ Dec 15th 2006 10:29AM
FrankTheCrank, unless the PS3 owner has a HDTV the BluRay drive becomes irreverently.
Scott @ Dec 15th 2006 10:41AM
42,000 units for an add-on in less than a month's worth of sales isn't bad. The HD DVD is still pretty hard to find. I've only seen a couple of units in stock at my local Wal-Mart.
Still, the HD DVD add-on sales should be counted with the HD DVD player sales and not used as a comparison with Blu-Ray. Apples and Oranges and all that.
img eL @ Dec 15th 2006 10:56AM
Ben "Blu Ray" Drawbaugh, that sounds hilarious :), like some wild west outlaw, vigilante or something. One way Sony could draw gamers to Blu Ray would be to mix a game with a Movie, like a spiderman game with a spidey movie. Something like that or to add HD film content, trailers, making ofs in HD added to games. Xbox has no choice but to make revisions of 360 with HD DVD drives built in them, Xbox 540 Xbox 720
Steve @ Dec 15th 2006 11:21AM
I've already bought a bunch of Blu-ray movies now that I have PS3!!! prepare to see a number increase of Blu-ray sales in the upcoming months.
zombieflanders @ Dec 15th 2006 11:46AM
Amazon commonly assigns IDs to items that have no stated or even planned release. They had one for Star Wars DVDs for several years. They have a ton of them for Blu-ray titles as well.
zombieflanders @ Dec 15th 2006 11:53AM
Amazon commonly assigns IDs to items that have no stated or even planned release. This isn't an unknown fact. I mean, they had one for Star Wars DVDs for several *years*. They have a ton of them for Blu-ray titles as well.
zombieflanders @ Dec 15th 2006 11:54AM
Yeah, just like Walkmen, HD cameras, CRT tech, CDs, and digital outputs. Try again.
rickenback @ Dec 15th 2006 12:05PM
Ok. Not only are you a dork, but you're kinda dumb. Every item you listed was hardware based. Every item I listed was software (media, format) based.
My point being that Sony has yet to release a winning FORMAT!
Come on man. Think before you type.
rijit @ Dec 15th 2006 11:56AM
I call Bull Sh*t. Engadget is goin downhil, the quality of their information and articles is getting crappy. What a surprise, a game sonsole has outsold a HD-DVD player, can we say DUH!
Ben Drawbaugh @ Dec 15th 2006 12:01PM
Ivan,
But Microsoft does need HD DVD to succeed if they want wide acceptance of VC1. Blu-ray doesn't need VC-1 because they have enough space to provide less dependence on the latest compression technologies.
Every sale of an HD DVD = more money for M$. Only Blu-ray titles that use VC-1 make MS money, which isn't very many.
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 2:25PM
But Microsoft does need HD DVD to succeed if they want wide acceptance of VC1. Blu-ray doesn't need VC-1 because they have enough space to provide less dependence on the latest compression technologies.
Blu ray does need VC-1 to show that they are better than HD DVD. Yes, it can equal HD DVD utilizing 50GB discs and MPEG 2 but will actually need VC-1 to become the superior format that Blu ray has been touting since the beginning (although Ive yet to see that since VC-1 encoded discs havent been shown to be a marked improvement over the HD DVD equivalent). Im guessing that a lot of people here have forgotten what was promised by Blu ray a BETTER format not an equal format.
Nash @ Dec 15th 2006 12:03PM
Who cares how many units are out there? Until we start seeing movies selling, all of this is speculation. I guess everybody loves a good old-fashioned pointless flame war.
Some people think that both formats will fail due to digital distribution. Personally, I don't have the patience to wait for an HD movie to download, so I disagree. I think it's a more interesting topic of conversation though. Maybe I'm just bitter. BTW, I have a PS3 and I don't plan on buying BD movies unless they're either a vast improvement over what's in my collection or they are filmed in HD. The Matrix on BD might be cool, but I'm not replacing my DVD of Shawshank Redemption.
Briskier105 @ Dec 15th 2006 12:50PM
Nash,
Well said!!! I think the whole "HD download" thing is overrated and I completely agree with everything you said... this coming from an HD DVD guy. Nice to know someone in here thinks like a typical consumer.
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 2:31PM
Who cares how many units are out there? Until we start seeing movies selling, all of this is speculation. I guess everybody loves a good old-fashioned pointless flame war.
This is the most logical comment Ive seen in this article so far.
The Blu ray supporter will shout victory while the HD DVD support will shout foul yet neither will realize that this news bares little consequence.
Nash @ Dec 15th 2006 12:34PM
Compact Disc is a format. It's worked out pretty well.
Ivan J. Parron, J.D. @ Dec 15th 2006 12:34PM
The answer as to why Blu-ray is integrated into PS3 and the HD-DVD optional in in the Xbox is elementary... Sony has a much bigger stake in Blu-ray becoming the dominant format than Microsoft in HD-DVD. The dominance factor of the format effects all of Sony's ancillary businesses (ie: Sony Electronics, Sony Pictures, Sony/BMG Music, etc.). Microsoft on the other hand doesnt have as big an interest in HD-DVD winning. Their platform could just as easliy use either technology but went the HD-DVD route apparently to distinguish itself for competitive reasons in battling the PS3, not so much because they need HD-DVD to be the dominant format.
Max @ Dec 15th 2006 12:46PM
This seems very fishy to me. Considering MSFT has not released any sales numbers, this could be a prime target of sampling error. Everyone knows that 100% of PS3's were sold, this is just how it is. However to determine how many HD DVD add-ons were sold the company would have to go to retailers and ask. And depending on how they do this, there could very well be error. Just there are a lot of add-ons out there, and if they are sampling stores to see how the sales are doing, then they ask 1 store how many add-ons they have sold, and they sold say 10. But this sells them out, then this 10 is extrapolated to all other stores, but what about the stores that sold 25 or more. I just would like to see how they determined these numbers before I even start determining if this means anything.
Also the attach rates for the movies is really what matters. If no PS3 owners are buying BD movies, then who cares there are a more PS3's on the street, because movies in homes is what is going to win the war.
Other Steve @ Dec 15th 2006 12:51PM
As an owner of a PS3, and a 1080p TV, I can say the Blu Ray movies look absolutely spectacular over the HDMI cable. I also discovered that MPEG2 files I made using my HD video camera and that I stored on regular DVD's play in high definition right off the DVD using the PS3 drive. I tried it and I think HD looks better over the HDMI cable than over component. I know some folks get angry when I report these observations, but they are what I see with my system. My advice on HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray? If you can, check out both and see which works best for you. I'm happy with the PS3-Blu-Ray combo.
Best,
Steve
Tony @ Dec 15th 2006 1:03PM
>>Ok. Not only are you a dork, but you're kinda dumb. Every item you listed was hardware based. Every item I listed was software (media, format) based.
FrankTheCrank @ Dec 15th 2006 2:09PM
This is what I don't get...
Sony has made transitioning to the next video optical format a no brainer. But people take this as Sony is shoving the format down our throat.
I don't consider it shoving the format down our throat, I think Sony cut us a break into the next video optical format. 360Prem is $399. For $100 more, I got the latest version of Playstation and a Blu-Ray HD video player. I don't get what the problem is. Where else could I get a Blu-Ray player by itself, or any HD-DVD player for $100?
And, it's not like the PS3 is a slouch at playing Blu-Ray movies...this player recently ranked high on one of the video/audio rags shootouts.
I do have to say one thing that I immediately noticed with the Blu-Ray, that uncompressed audio sounds amazing. Crispy highs and crunching lows. Great stuff.
Jay @ Dec 15th 2006 2:11PM
"LOTR is already on amazon.com, I was going on that. I wasn't lying or swaying opinion."
Right, so we're taking the word of a retailer over the word of the people who make the movie? that really helps your argument and your credibility. AMazon is well know for placing items that aren't for sale.
Ben @ Dec 15th 2006 2:33PM
Blu-ray is a better format, but that does not necessarily mean it has better picture quality. PQ is important, but it isn't the most important aspect of the next generation format.
Garry @ Dec 15th 2006 2:26PM
"Why both Sony and Microsoft don't offer the next generation movie formats as a premium option for their players is beyond us."
Umm, because Sony wants to force Blu-Ray on the market. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. PS3 is a trojan horse first, and a gaming console second.
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 2:46PM
Blu-ray is a better format, but that does not necessarily mean it has better picture quality. PQ is important, but it isn't the most important aspect of the next generation format.
Im well aware of the specifications of the two formats. Everything is there to benefit Blu ray (to help it win) yet most (if not all) of that advantage has been (thus far) squandered. Blu ray has YET to show that they are the better format. They say they are (and the specs does show that it can be better) but have not shown that they are.
Robert @ Dec 15th 2006 2:41PM
"Blu ray does need VC-1 to show that they are better than HD DVD. Yes, it can equal HD DVD utilizing 50GB discs and MPEG 2 but will actually need VC-1 to become the superior format that Blu ray has been touting since the beginning"
The encoding and hardware playing the discs are the only things determining how good a picture looks, the storage medium really doesn't play into it. (unless there are bandwith limitations, which isn't a factor here) If the players are on-par the movies should look the same if they are both VC-1.
As for the sales numbers in this article, I'd wait for something official and that covers more than the US.
In end acceptance will come down to which player hits the consumer price point first, probably in $200 - $300 range. With the accpetance of HD TVs, the first affordable product will win. If the players are affordable the movies will sell and studios will produce their films in both formats if necessary to keep from losing out on the profits. So far, Warner and Paramount are the only ones who seem to be on the right track.
pliepl @ Dec 15th 2006 3:12PM
The encoding and hardware playing the discs are the only things determining how good a picture looks, the storage medium really doesn't play into it. (unless there are bandwith limitations, which isn't a factor here) If the players are on-par the movies should look the same if they are both VC-1.
Better more so in the sense that they wouldnt have to waste 20GB to catch up with HD DVD with VC-1 rather than actual PQ. Until we actually move beyond 1080p the actual space that is afforded by Blu ray is of little consequence to PQ.
ErickAnderson @ Dec 15th 2006 3:38PM
Is everyone forgetting about Sony's failure to downscale from 1080p??? Its great that they are forcing a format onto an already expensive machine, but what happens when you take it home and they output at 480 because you cant afford a 1080p screen?? $200 dollars later I'm enjoying 1080i via component and I din't have to do anything except plug it in ( not to mention the extra $$ on the ps3 hdmi cord - have fun with that nonsense) 2 reasons why I dont have a PS3: Oblivion and Gears of War - NOW - not March and not "hopefully future potential" - actual results dictate where my $$$ goes - not some stupid fanboy(FrankCrank) tryting to justify why he just spent $600 on a sub-par system
siva @ Dec 15th 2006 4:27PM
Both HD-DVD and Bluray have the same format support
MPEG2
VC-1
MPEG-4 AVC (aka layer 10, aka H.264)
I would like MPEG-4 AVC to succeed. However, many HD-DVD movies are using VC-1. I hate to give money to Microsoft. I think Bluray people are more inclined to use MPEG-4 AVC. So, I hope it succeeds. Regardless, I am not a gamer and I am watching until more movies are available and the prices come down.
James @ Dec 15th 2006 5:11PM
siva,
Don't be dumb. If you look up the patent pool, Microsoft is also in the AVC (H.264) patent pool along with a bunch of other companies. Whether studios used H.264 or VC1, Microsoft will get a piece of the pie.
Agathos @ Dec 15th 2006 5:04PM
To ErickAnderson:
The 1080p issue you speak of has already been fixed with a fw update, didn't affect everyone, and plainly isn't near the world ending nightmare f*cking conspiracy idiots like you have tried to turn it into.
Regarding the hdmi, you can use an off brand for 20$ if you want, and at least the PS3 has hdmi.
When you get your ass slappped around in a debate do you always use poor excuses like fanboyism.
Me, I own all three and enjoy the hell out of them all on a 1080p 60" XBR2. Sucks to be you and have to wine instead.
Agathos @ Dec 15th 2006 5:07PM
oh! And not to mention MGS4, FFXIII, Lair, DMC, and all the other PS3 specefic titles I'll be able to enjoy alongside any 360 specefic.
Dave @ Dec 15th 2006 5:09PM
I am happy with my PS3, addon dorks!