Xbox 360 HD DVD playback: Maximum 1080i via component, 1080p VGA-only
We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.
To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:
VGA:
- HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
- DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
- Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
- HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
- DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
- Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Juice @ Sep 21st 2006 3:10PM
Not really a big deal given most people dont own 1080p TVs and for those who do most of those TVs are 1080p/60 and not 1080p/24 which is what movies are encoded in. For those who do care about something that minor, they would probably buy the new Toshiba with HDMI1.3 anyways, at $499
I am disappointed about the upscale though, the Xbox has enough processing power to do this, so they should of had DVD upscale, there is no excuse for not having this feature.
Enzo @ Sep 21st 2006 3:25PM
That's cool, my TV doesn't do 1080p and I won't be upgrading to a 1080p set for at least 2 years.
By then, if HDDVD succeeds, I (and most of the guys who would buy into hddvd so early) will probably have a dedicated player.
zelig2 @ Sep 21st 2006 3:38PM
So then the VGA cable will allow the 360 to upconvert regular DVDs with the fall update that's happening? Or will they "require" me to buy the HD-DVD addon for that feature?
Mike Jenkins @ Sep 21st 2006 4:00PM
So this update will increase teh resolutions the VGA cable outputs? Right now it can't even do 1080i let alone 1080p, and it doesn't support my monitor's native resolution of 1680x1050. I can only hope that the update will support my monitor's resolution. Would a small DVI-VGA adapter like those that come with video cards work on a TV with a DVI input? I wouldn't want to mess up my HDTV to find out, but I don't know why it wouldnt. Anyone know if it works?
Scott @ Sep 21st 2006 4:03PM
#3 - The Spring Update enabled upconverting to 720p and 1080i. I don't see any reason why the Fall Update wouldn't allow upconverting without the HD-DVD addon.
These same restrictions apply to the PS3 though, right? The $500 version has no HDMI and the $600 doesn't come with HDMI cables.
Natiahs @ Sep 21st 2006 4:05PM
Bad news #1...the Toshiba HD-DVD player with HDMI 1.3 is $899, not $499. The low-end model doesn't have HDMI 1.3.
JET
Travis Bell @ Sep 21st 2006 4:15PM
I'm a little confused. Right now with a VGA cable you can have your DVDs upconverted to 720p... will that remain? Or are they removing it with the update.. it would suck to go back down to 480p on DVDs...
Parris @ Sep 21st 2006 4:23PM
Not a big deal really as all MS has to do is add a HDMI cable and you will have full 1080p support just like the PS3...oh wait they have a $499 unit that has zero HDMI support.
Also the US price for the HD-DVD addon will be announced next week at X06
Brian @ Sep 21st 2006 4:33PM
Interesting, so will the 360 upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080p on the VGA connection? This article makes it sound like the upscaling is not supported through component output. My 720p DLP HDTV has a VGA connector, maybe I'll start using it with the 360 when the HD DVD drive is released.
Jeremy Hensley @ Sep 21st 2006 4:37PM
So could I, after the Fall update, purchase a VGA to DVI adapter and have my DVD's running throught the 360 upconverted to 1080i, rather than seeing them at 480p using component cables?
Thanks!
Franssu @ Sep 21st 2006 4:40PM
Why the hell is 1080p DVD upscaling and HD DVD output authorized on a VGA output and not on a component output ? With good component cables, quality should be better than VGA (better interconnects, usually better shielding of each signal in the cable too).
Do you know of any 1080p-capable recorder with component inputs ? I mean, an affordable one ? And who in their right mind would record upscaled video ?
All this stuff is just plain stupid. And if someday the enable the constraint token, I suggest we shove their HD DVDs and Blu-Rays where the sun never shines.
Travis Bell @ Sep 21st 2006 4:58PM
> Interesting, so will the 360 upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080p on the VGA connection?
As of RIGHT NOW it will upscale to 720p with a VGA cable--I am doing it now with my 44'' 720p DLP. I am confused as to how this will change with the upcoming update though...
Pip @ Sep 21st 2006 5:36PM
According to the AACS Interim Adopter Agreement (Last updated 2/15/2006) even VGA output has to be constrained if the ICT token is enabled. This applies to Component as well.
How is Microsoft allowing VGA, but not Component?
ColourSource @ Sep 21st 2006 6:07PM
This is pretty cool. I own the VGA cable and have a 1080p TV/monitor with a VGA connection.
TravistyOJ @ Sep 21st 2006 6:17PM
Crap! I wanted DVD upconversion over component. I wanted it bad.
SquirrelPhister @ Sep 21st 2006 6:58PM
7. Travis Bell:
"I'm a little confused. Right now with a VGA cable you can have your DVDs upconverted to 720p... will that remain? Or are they removing it with the update.. it would suck to go back down to 480p on DVDs..."
did you even read this whole thing before posting this comment?
Yes, of course it will remain. Why wouldn't it? What possible reason would they have for removing 720p support? Come on, seriously now.
pete @ Sep 21st 2006 11:52PM
Can't you get a vga to component adapter?
(I swear I've seen these.)
Floppy @ Sep 22nd 2006 12:30AM
Since when is 480p "upscaling"
This "huge announcement" from microsoft sure has turned sucky.
GJ @ Sep 22nd 2006 1:56AM
You can get a VGA transcoder to convert the VGA back to component or use a VGA-to DVI and Then a DVI to HDMI adapter (Just be careful not to fry your HDTV with a bad res.setting)
zumiezboarder @ Feb 27th 2007 3:25AM
what do you mean when you say be careful not to fry your hdtv? is it dangerous to use connectors in the fashion you are describing?
GhostDoggy @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:59AM
This is strange as the Microsoft RGBhv cable (aka VGA) does not currently support 1080i or 1080P. Before the original launch of the 360, Microsoft claimed their VGA cable would support 1080i, which I was greatly interested in. Within days of the 360 launch, many reported back that the VGA cable wouldn't support 1080i. Then Microsoft change the information on the Xbox website to exclude 1080i support for VGA.
I feel that Microsoft is selling its customers short when claiming, denouncing, and now reclaiming VGA 1080i support. Why should it matter if VGA supports 1080p, as introducing interlacing for all of those multisync television monitors using VGA 1080i are being snubbed.
David Tam @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:42AM
Ahh this is perfect match for my 42in Westinghouse 1080p lcd because it has a vga input! But how much difference does it make? I current have the HD-A1 hooked up via hdmi and it only does 1080i. The second gen hddvd players can do 1080p but they also cost about a $1000. The xbox360 hddvd drive looks like a steal. Hopefully they have a solution to handle dolby truehd - but even if it does not.. for xbox 360 owners, this is a steal. For people who don't have vga inputs.. there are devices that convert vga to hdmi or component.
Franssu @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:27PM
David, if your set deinterlaces properly 3:2 pulldown video (which is exactly how your HD-DVD player outputs 1080i/60 from the 1080p/24 material on the disc), there will be no difference at all between a 1080i and 1080p connection.
But, with the VGA input of your TV, you'll be able to get the sweet 1080p/60 output by the few (if any) XBox360 video games that will benefit from this new feature.
By the way, how's your sister ?
For me, It'll be a good VGA switch in order to be able to get the DVDs upscaled to 720p, the native rez on my projector, while still keeping my HTPC. Or I'll just use my LG plyer who outputs very good 1080i over component (unfortunately it sucks in 720p), CSS or not. I just hope Microsoft doesn't fracks the 720p downrezzing of HD-DVDs as 1st-gen Toshiba players alledgedly do.
DanMacMan @ Sep 22nd 2006 12:04PM
Well, this only means MSFT will have to release an HDMI cable now.
zelig2 @ Sep 22nd 2006 12:07PM
>As of RIGHT NOW it will upscale to 720p with a VGA cable--I am doing it now with my 44'' 720p DLP. I am confused as to how this will change with the upcoming update though...
Nothing should change for you. They're only adding the ability to go to 1080p through the VGA cable. You should still get upconverted DVDs at 720p.
Keith Wilcox @ Sep 22nd 2006 1:55PM
Looks like Sony put HDMI into the lowest PS3 now. Don't worry guys, you'll get your full 1080p!
rothgar @ Sep 22nd 2006 2:46PM
@ColourSource
Yes but does your TV accept 1080p through VGA?
to my knowledge (which isn't that much) there is no 1080p television available that will display 1080p through VGA. All the ones I have seen are DVI/HDMI only.
Shmoe @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:15PM
MS will likely add a HDMI cable soon enough, don't fret. But the sooner the beter.
Eric V @ Sep 22nd 2006 6:26PM
Anyone curious about a TV that supports 1080p via VGA here is the one I have:
Westinghouse 42" 1080p LCD Monitor
http://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-44-7-42-1080p-monitor.aspx
It just received a price drop at Best Buy this week and also includes a free Philips 1000 watt 5.1 surround sound w/progressive dvd player. ;)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7699163&st=1080p&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1138084694260
Sale: $1,599.99
And finally, that VGA cable needed (better than Microsoft's):
VGA Cable for Xbox 360
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7589175&st=xbox+vga&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1130979909963
Isagani @ Sep 23rd 2006 2:45AM
gotta love MS PR... tout 1080P output just like they touted Winning 11 and GTA IV exclusivity; talk first, make headlines, then release actualy facts in a press release quitely that backtrack on what they originally said... what is up with the marketing people at MS??? I mean just sell the system you made - it's great with really good games backing it up. They better just be careful and not drop support too quickly like they did with the first Xbox... if they do that I'm not supporting another MS console ever!
Now back to Lego Starwars II :-)
Alexandre @ Sep 23rd 2006 12:50PM
I'm glad I did rush out and buy one when they first came out.
THE MAC GOD @ Sep 23rd 2006 8:16PM
I still wish I knew why they promote non-true HD solutions when HDMI is the true HD solution. Pushing VGA is only them saying, "Hey, we messed up by not making it an easy possibility, and I'll have Major Nelson talk about how bad HDMI looks on his poscast, thus relieving us of our duty to provide true HD content, even though we are in the self-proclaimed 'HD Era'!"
Whatever.
gleam @ Sep 24th 2006 1:30AM
WTF makes VGA and component non "true hd" solutions?
#1, there is nothing about 1080p that makes it "truer" than 720p or 1080i. These are all HD.
#2, both VGA and component are perfectly capable of carrying 1080p. Seriously. A huge number of 1080p hdtvs have VGA inputs that can take 1080p (jvc, westinghouse, sceptre, samsung, etc), and some can take 1080p over component.
You just got sucked in to Sony's PR blather. Learn the facts.
And, for what it's worth, there is no real reason to worry about 1080p vs 1080i for bluray/hddvd. On-disc, they're 1920x1080x24p, 24 full frames per second. 1080i, at 60 half frames per second, is capable of carrying every frame in its entirety with no problems.
Now, if the player or the display have crappy deinterlacers, you might care, but that's rarely the case.
So don't worry about dropping the extra $300 for 1080p output. Also don't worry about hdmi 1.3, since I doubt you currently have a display that can do 48-bit color, and I really doubt you will in the next 5 years, at which point a better hddvd player without a 60 second boot up time will be $50.
rocke86 @ Sep 23rd 2006 8:56PM
Dang 480p will be the max for DVDs via component. I just don't understand it, your tv is allowed to upscale but your dvd player can not! What a world!
Could someone please explain to me why dvd upscaling over component is not allowed? It seriously seems the dvd industry hates us who bought component only hdtvs early and will do anything to ensure we don't enjoy the best experience till we buy yet another tv. I was told hdtv was the future so I thought it was a safe buy but here we are.
smokeonit @ Sep 24th 2006 5:01PM
i hope blueray makes it, HD DVD is microsoft, so i hate it;-)
Zach @ Sep 24th 2006 9:49PM
HD DVD "is" Toshiba. Get your facts straight. Microsoft *supports* HD DVD.
Jake @ Sep 25th 2006 12:45PM
Picking out an HD-TV for gaming and movies isn't as easy as I thought it would be. It seems the more I research the more I find out that there is no solve all HD-TV. Why can't some manufacturer make my perfect TV?
Young 601 @ Sep 25th 2006 8:05PM
@Shmoe
Not to sound rude, but don't you think with all the demand Billsoft would've released an HDMI cable by now? I recall having read somewhere that "if they could just make a cable for it they would have." I guess it might have something to do with the GPU. It's possible that they didn't think it was going to become that much of a selling point this early on. It is possible that they will sell one, but it's also possible that they won't.
Tanner S @ Sep 26th 2006 2:48PM
I'm disappointed
abid @ Oct 1st 2006 8:42AM
xbox 360 has problem no display but light come green
sinime @ Oct 5th 2006 3:07PM
HDMI has been anounced for the 360....
News:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=443405
PreOrder:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?cookie_test=1&product_id=802523
Brandon @ Oct 6th 2006 12:37PM
HD DVD Priced, $199.99, not bad I'm buying one :)
Javier @ Oct 9th 2006 10:14PM
Aww dammit! I just purchashed a Sony 70" SXRD 1080p television for my bedroom for seven grand. It has a PC RGB (VGA?) input, but the manual says it won't display at
1080p via PC input and that the screen will be smaller than the whole
screen. Does this mean I'm screwed?
Macaca @ Oct 27th 2006 10:24AM
Some more fuel for the fire: what about 'normal' VGA screens? Like PC monitors etc. I have this huge 19inch iiyama VM 454, that does 2048x1538 max, and accepts widescreen input too (just have to fiddle a bit with the screen size). It will crunch 1920x1080 (eg:1080p) with ease. Problem is that VGA display options never mention anything about HD, these nothing with 1080 vertical lines in the options, only 1280x7xx and 1380x720 ultra wide, plus a few smaller settings. Question: will i and all other VGA users ever get something resembling 1920x1080 om my CRT? (the article says HD VGA will do 1080p by VGA, but since at this moment theres a difference between VGA to HD TV and VGA to a CRT im not sure what this means for me)
Maverick-DBZ- @ Nov 6th 2006 11:40PM
It probably does.... :(
JDOG2321 @ Dec 29th 2006 12:29AM
I need HELP with the Ucontrol on the MIAMI VICE HD/DVD Combo Disc!!! I have the 360HD Drive and every time I turn on the Ucontrol it comes up with an error msg. and then shuts down the drive!!! But what I don't get is why does the Ucontrol work for KING KONG and not MIAMI VICE ??????? I'am thinking their needs to be an update for this from Microsoft.
Maximus Bellum @ Jan 4th 2007 9:43PM
I spent a bunch of hours and I did numerous tests with 1080p xbox360 and PS3 and what works and doesn't work. Also did a comparison of Dish and Directv.. Check it out at:
http://www.bellumgessi.com/content/Geek.htm
ixpagan @ Jan 31st 2007 3:50PM
Good job, putting that doc together, very informative
Thanks
TC @ Jan 21st 2007 1:53PM
Test comment
TC @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:03PM
I own a 1080p set that is 1080p running at 60mhz. You state movies are encoded at 1080p running at 24mhz. What does your HDMI 1.3 comment mean please.