http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/ Engadget HD Comments for Blu-ray vs. HD DVD on hold for blue laser shortage? http://www.engadgethd.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgethd.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 10:49AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 12:37PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 12:57PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 1:16PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 1:48PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 2:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
I know I would rather have a stand alone player than a PS3 for HD movies.

When IS Sony's stand alone player coming out anyway? ]]>Aug 29th 2006 4:29PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
One thing that amazes me about this sort of thing though is how it is viewed by the public. Sometimes with an uncairing eye, some with a bewildered one, and some just plain don't know what's going on. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think that if they buy a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player then they're going to have to sell their entire DVD collection and buy next gen versions of all their movies. People thought that when DVD came out - I'd be talking to friends or family about this new movie format coming out and they'd say "Aww, but I have so many VHS movies. I'd hate to have to swap them all". Why sway them? Keep your VHS movies. Just buy Blu-Ray from then on. It is entirely possible to run two formats in the same house, and I'm sure with many people it may end up being 3 formats or even more.]]>Aug 29th 2006 4:28PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
I have over 600 DVDs and I still hopped on the HD-DVD bandwagon once I saw that Blu-Ray wasn't what it was touted to be and I havn't regretted my decision yet. I've bought a handful of movies as well -- it's not like I won't be able to play them in the future. Worst case scenario I should be able to rip 'em to my PC and re-burn 'em to a Blu-Ray disk if that's what the future holds (although I still think Blu-Ray will flop but we'll see).

Short answer: Don't let your current investment in DVD be a reason not to adopt a new format - they're backwards compatible. In addition, lots of current HD-DVDs actually have both an HD side and a regular DVD side so you can play the movie in any player.]]>Aug 29th 2006 10:34PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 8:13PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 29th 2006 9:38PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
I don't know how you have 24 stars, but your argument is ludicrous.

"Once the decoder chips improve enough that H.264 becomes viable as "the" standard codec on the platform, its lights-out for HD-DVD."

Hello? HD-DVD supports the use of AVC MPEG-4. Do you know what AVC MPEG-4 is?

"Settling on VC-1 for Blu-Ray is a no-win situation because both platforms would be equal in picture quality and Blu-Ray needs to be "better" at the same-or-near price as HD-DVD."

Even if h.264 is applied to all future Blu-Ray titles, what makes it better than VC-1? Besides, it's a common mistake thinking that VC-1 is a Microsoft product. Besides Microsoft, there are 15 other companies that are part of the VC-1 patent pool. h.264 quality is on the same level as VC-1.]]>Aug 30th 2006 3:46AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
After all, Nintendo Wii will win the next gen, so it really doesn't even matter in games!]]>Aug 30th 2006 3:52AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 30th 2006 5:08AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
While H.264 MPEG4 AVC is supported in name on HD-DVD, it will not be adopted. Microsoft will make sure of it because they will drop support for the format if the studios shift away from VC-1 to H.264 in response to any move made by the BDA on the competing format. If you think otherwise, then you are ignorant of the history of how Microsoft behaves.

Furthermore, VC-1 is not on par with H.264. The only things going for VC-1 is that it is better than MPEG2 and it can run on cheap decoder chips so one day in the next couple of years - if HD-DVD survives - you could buy a cheap $20 Chinese knock-off player at Wal*Mart and play your discs. H.264 requires a lot more processing power to decode it than VC-1. And just because you claim VC-1 is just as good as H.264 does not make it a fact. Your zero star posting opinion is not equal to what the SMPTE reports on the subject, no matter how much Microsoft says so.
]]>Aug 30th 2006 12:52PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
So, Blu-Ray is better than HD DVD because:

1, The picture is better! Wait, actually no, even the best Blu-Ray movies out there can barely touch the middle of the pack HD-DVD movies and can't even really come close to Chronicles, Aeon and the rest of the reference HD-DVD ones.

2, Because Blu-Ray has higher capacity!... Well actually no they so far have only gotten the SL25 working so HD DVD has greater capacity.

3, Oh, well for sure because they have the greater studio support.. Sure sure, but it doesn't seem as thou8gh any of them are actually releasing movies now does it. So far HD DVD has roughly double the movies out, the movies out are BETTER movies and the trend is expected to continue through the holiday season if not go more in HD DVD's favor.

4, Because Blu-Ray has far greater CE support! Well basically the same argument as number 3. I guess if they could get the tech working the others (Sony included) might actually release their players.

5, Because of the PS3! LOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAH. Oh man this is the best one. If Sony can actually delivery anywhere near the quantity they are claiming in the timeframe they are claiming (they admit to not having started production by the way) AND they somehow manage to get all the kinks out of delivering a fully functional Blu-Ray machine and next gen gaming system all in one AND the somehow manage to get some movies released of a quality (PQ and content) worth actually watching AND if all the gamers decide they actually want to watch movies, then and MAYBE only then will the PS3 have some impact. And of course that will simply be offset by the 360 add-on so at best it will be a wash for Blu-Ray.

Sure all of these things MIGHT happen. And Sony has been promising them all since last year so good luck with that lol.

But yeah, no problem. Blu-Ray is the better format. Now please excuse me I have some friends coming over to watch some HD DVD movies tonight and I have munchies to prepare.

Cheers,

Richard]]>Aug 30th 2006 1:50PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Jeremy,
I agree with most of your points in post #15, but I don't think you can say with a straight face that "VC-1 is not on par with H.264". That might be the case two years from now, but today they are very close.

Here's a good thread over at AVS that discusses the merits of both codecs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=706748
]]>Aug 30th 2006 5:24PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Another ludicrous response from you. Show me proof that h.264 is superior to VC-1. Just because your claim of h.264 superiority over VC-1 based on your 24 fluffed rating doesn't make it a fact either. Quit whining about Microsoft did this and done that. It's tiresome.]]>Aug 30th 2006 9:58PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
"While H.264 MPEG4 AVC is supported in name on HD-DVD, it will not be adopted. Microsoft will make sure of it because they will drop support for the format if the studios shift away from VC-1 to H.264 in response to any move made by the BDA on the competing format. If you think otherwise, then you are ignorant of the history of how Microsoft behaves."

Whether adopted or not, it has already been used. For example U2: Rattle & Hum was encoded with AVC MPEG-4.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=22952

I'm sure, it will be used more than once.]]>Aug 30th 2006 10:12PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Microsoft is also part of the patent pool of h.264. What's your response now? ]]>Aug 30th 2006 10:25PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
several leading consumer electronics companies (including Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp and LG) have already demonstrated products that can read/write CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray discs using a BD/DVD/CD compatible optical head, so you don't have to worry about your existing DVD collection becoming obsolete. In fact, most of the Blu-ray players coming out will support upscaling of DVDs to 1080p/1080i, so your existing DVD collection will look even better than before. While it's up to each manufacturer to decide if they want to make their products backwards compatible with DVD, the format is far too popular to not be supported. The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) expects every Blu-ray Disc device to be backward compatible with DVDs.

Site: http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_backwards_compatible


In response to an eariler post that HD DVD didn't use Blue Lasers so it wouldn't be a problem for them....

A HD DVD disc can store substantially more data than a DVD, because of the shorter wavelength (405 nm) of the blue-violet laser (DVDs use a 650-nm-wavelength red laser and CDs an infrared 780 nm laser)

Site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

Looks like it's an issue for them too... ;)]]>Aug 31st 2006 9:18AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Just because Microsoft is part of the H.264 patent pool does not mean Microsoft is a-okay with it surpassing VC-1 as the next generation HD codec of choice. If you had any perspective or background knowledge, James, you'd also know that Microsoft is/was a member of the OpenGL board and is a patent holder in that too. Yet every chance they've had, they've tried to nullify OpenGL with their own DirectX API, both with Windows and the Xbox. They could have implemented AAC (developed by Dolby & Sony but most successfully used by Apple) as their audio codec of choice for Windows and related items, but they preferred to try to create their own WMA audio standard (which is inferior to AAC and OGG) to supplant it. Point is, stop being such a Redmond shill by trying to repeat their talking points as fact.

As for WM9/VC-1 not being equal to H.264, here's a nice little article about Microsoft misleading the SMPTE over it back in 2004. I cannot find the EE Times original but here's a reference link courtesy of Slashdot:

http://slashdot.org/hardware/04/10/23/192249.shtml?tid=186&tid=198&tid=109&tid=1
]]>Aug 31st 2006 12:37PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Me a Redmond shill? Haha... very funny.

yes, Microsoft have chosen their in-house developed API over others. Look at DirectX now, with DirectX 10, you can't tell me that there are other API superior to it. If you are, you're full of shit.

"Just because Microsoft is part of the H.264 patent pool does not mean Microsoft is a-okay with it surpassing VC-1 as the next generation HD codec of choice."

Why the hell not? Microsoft receive royalties from the h.264 pool or the VC-1 pool. They don't get everything. They share it with numerous other companies. What would it be in their interest in forcing VC-1 on others?

You going to believe that slashdot article? As far as SMPTE goes, they did not drop VC-1.

Isn't what Sony is trying to do with Blu-Ray? Creating their own standard instead of using the one adopted by the DVD Forum? I think you should stop being a Sony shill. Quit while you're behind. You're not going to convince anyone that AVC is superior to VC-1 just because Microsoft has a hand in it. DirectX10 > all other graphics APIs and will be used by even the most diehard OpenGL supporters like John Carmack of id.]]>Aug 31st 2006 2:18PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Aug 31st 2006 2:19PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Point is, you are a shill, James.

Had Microsoft not given a $100,000 donation to the SMPTE Foundation, VC-1 would have been dropped because it was found to be inferior to H.264.

Microsoft does not respect standards unless they are the ones that created them in order to perpetuate their twin monopolies of the Windows operating system and the Office software suite.

For example, the BDA adopted Java for Blu-Ray's menu software. Microsoft developed iHD for the menu system not only for HD-DVD, but also for use with their IPTV software.

Microsoft does not respect standards related to web pages.

Microsoft does not respect audio codec standards.

Microsoft spent a fortune on DirectX in order to make game companies dependent upon the API in order to discourage developers from easily porting/writing games for multiple platforms such as Linux and Macs. Whereas other companies such as Apple and Sony support OpenGL development.

Furthermore, just like every other Microsoft shill and fanboi, you claim that Blu-Ray is Sony's platform. Sorry, but that does not wash because Blu-Ray has more support from consumer electronics manufacturers than does HD-DVD. Does Sony even have a Blu-Ray player on the market yet? Nope. Maybe you need to go back to elementary school and/or sign up for Hooked-On-Phonics so you can properly read and understand that the name "Samsung" is not pronounced "Sony". Samsung is not Sony; Dell is not Sony; Apple is not Sony; and Matsushita is certainly the hell not Sony.

And I will spell out the reason as to why Microsoft wants VC-1 to dominate over H.264 since it is beyond your mental comprehension. They want the Windows Media Player to be the standard multimedia player as opposed to QuickTime and others (Divx, Real, etc). This would place Apple and others (including the Linux platform) at a competitive disadvantage as opposed to the industry standard H.264 codec becoming dominant. Again, its all in order to prop up their Windows monopoly.

ps. it wasn't a Slashdot article, genius. I stated it originated at EE Times. Perhaps if you were knowledgeable on the subject, you'd understand that difference.]]>Aug 31st 2006 5:31PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Final reply to you douchebag.

"Microsoft developed iHD for the menu system not only for HD-DVD, but also for use with their IPTV software."

This was developed in conjunction with Disney. Go look it up unless you're blind and stupid. And you failed to reply to why U2: Rattle & Hum for HD-DVD used AVC instead of VC-1. Yes, Microsoft is really "forcing" studios" to use VC-1.

"Microsoft does not respect standards related to web pages."

Does anyone else? Firefox is not 100% compliant and neither is Opera or Safari. Your point is moot.

"Microsoft spent a fortune on DirectX in order to make game companies dependent upon the API in order to discourage developers from easily porting/writing games for multiple platforms such as Linux and Macs."

Why should they? They are in the business of making money. I don't see Apple porting iDVD or any of their apps over to Windows. Again, Microsoft is developing for the majority of the market and not the minority. Again, your point is moot.

"Sorry, but that does not wash because Blu-Ray has more support from consumer electronics manufacturers than does HD-DVD."

Just because it's a Blu-Ray consortium doesn't mean that Sony is not the major backing of that format. HD-DVD is DVD Forum's adopted format of which Sony is part of the steering committee. If this is not conflict of interests, then I don't know what is. If you're part of the committee that adopts formats and concurrently, you're also adopting a competing format, what do you call that?

"Does Sony even have a Blu-Ray player on the market yet?"

Why does it matter whether Sony has a Blu-Ray player on the market at this moment or not? You're THE BIGGEST SONY "FANBOI" and you know it. Personally, I will be getting a Pioneer Blu-Ray player when it's ready or a combi player and not one from Sony. I know they don't make the best.

"ps. it wasn't a Slashdot article, genius. I stated it originated at EE Times. Perhaps if you were knowledgeable on the subject, you'd understand that difference."

No shit sherlock. Why don't you link to an actual article with tests instead of news regurgitators like slashdot and digg. Excuses don't mean shit here. And that's all you have to bash anything Microsoft. You're a hater and you ought to admit it. I don't hate Blu-Ray. I will get one. You won't get a HD-DVD because you hate Microsoft. Simple as that.]]>Aug 31st 2006 6:40PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Sep 6th 2006 4:11PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Sony knew the risks but proceeded anyway. Though I believe Blue-Ray will end up doing quite well I beleive that the market will be split down the middle for a very long time to come]]>Sep 8th 2006 4:32PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
The average consumer doesn't give a crap if one holds 20 gig and one holds 30 gig. They will buy whichever has more title available to them to view and whichever had a nicer price tag.

HD DVD is cheaper and will remain that way for at least a while, as it is easier to make and doesn't have Sony pressuring license fees. It is out now, for cheaper, and with more titles to choose from. PS3 is not the answer either - most consumers are not geeks and don't want a videogame system to be their media player.

Let's see which gets bought more this holiday season. I'm buying neither for a while, but my guess is that HD will win out.]]>Sep 14th 2006 9:37PMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/Right now, HD-DVD is in the lead because of price and the currently superior vc-1 codec. If Blu-ray is going to switch to h.264 in the future then that would make the samsung player worthless as it wouldnt be able to play the newer movies. If i just shelled out $1,000 and its already obsolete then i would be very pissed. Blu-ray should have gotten it right the first time.]]>Sep 18th 2006 12:28AMhttp://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/29/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-on-hold-for-blue-laser-shortage/
Warner Blu-ray titles are currently using VC-1 as well.

"If Blu-ray is going to switch to h.264 in the future then that would make the samsung player worthless as it wouldnt be able to play the newer movies. If i just shelled out $1,000 and its already obsolete then i would be very pissed. Blu-ray should have gotten it right the first time."

Huh? The Samsung can definitely play H264 titles. They're already being played and reviewed.

]]>Sep 18th 2006 7:05AM