First HD DVD vs Blu-ray title bout - "Training Day"
by Matt Burns 
posted Aug 1st 2006 at 10:32AM
Here it is. The first title bout between HD DVD and Blu-ray brought to you by Warner Home Video. In one corner with have the HD DVD flavor of Training Day that maybe encoded in 1080p but sufferers from a player that doesn't output the higher resolution. This title was deemed a long time ago, a great HD DVD film transfer and has been waiting for it's Blu-ray counterpart to show up so he can show 'em who is the boss.
Then in the other corner we have the rookie Blu-ray version of Training Day and even though he was just released, he is 1080p through and through, from movie to player to HDTV. His corner has been plagued with problematic noise-reduction issues and while some of his other Blu-ray brethren may have had issue in the past, this version of Training Day is ready to stand up against the HD DVD monster. We don't know who is going to come out on top of this one folks as it is going to be one mighty battle.
Blow for blow after the jump
The first round went to HD DVD thanks Blu-ray's funny cropping issue. Blu-ray just wasn't all the way there on the sides even though both titles were technically 2.40:1.
The second round went to HD DVD as well when the Blu-ray title displayed more polarization. HD DVD was more focused and had an easier time staying on target then Blu-ray.
The third round was an easy one for HD DVD 'cause for some reason Blu-ray couldn't make out HD DVD. 'Ol Blu's picture was just too dark compaired to the natural look of HD-DVD
They went onto a fourth round and HD DVD almost knocked out Blu-ray with his TrueHD surround track but, alas, there isn't any TrueHD compatible devices yet so it turned out to be a draw.
These two formats could go blow for blow, but in the end, the HD DVD title bested the Blu-ray version thanks to it's more consistent picture. It is simply more accurate and stable. All this from an "old-school" 1080i player too. Congrats goes out to the whole HD DVD camp and until next time, have fun and play safe, but do it in high-def!
HighDefDigest has the blow for blow details over at their site.
[Thanks, WiFiSpy]
The second round went to HD DVD as well when the Blu-ray title displayed more polarization. HD DVD was more focused and had an easier time staying on target then Blu-ray.
The third round was an easy one for HD DVD 'cause for some reason Blu-ray couldn't make out HD DVD. 'Ol Blu's picture was just too dark compaired to the natural look of HD-DVD
They went onto a fourth round and HD DVD almost knocked out Blu-ray with his TrueHD surround track but, alas, there isn't any TrueHD compatible devices yet so it turned out to be a draw.
These two formats could go blow for blow, but in the end, the HD DVD title bested the Blu-ray version thanks to it's more consistent picture. It is simply more accurate and stable. All this from an "old-school" 1080i player too. Congrats goes out to the whole HD DVD camp and until next time, have fun and play safe, but do it in high-def!
HighDefDigest has the blow for blow details over at their site.
[Thanks, WiFiSpy]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Randy @ Aug 1st 2006 10:43AM
Obviously HD-DVD is the victor. Not only on Training Day, but the other two titles as well. Long live HD-DVD.
szitzma @ Aug 1st 2006 10:44AM
HD DVD wins again.
kurt @ Aug 1st 2006 10:52AM
Nice article. I just posted the link to www.digg.com. Be sure to go there and give this great article the exposure it deserves!
Tush @ Aug 1st 2006 11:13AM
"'Ol Blu's picture was just too dark compaired to the natural look of Blu-ray."
What?
TJ @ Aug 1st 2006 11:26AM
This is why PS3 will be my first (and maybe only) Blu-ray player.
Well, that and the extra $400 I could be spending on games and movies.
In the meantime, my HD-A1 will serve me well, though I'd like to see more titles annonced!
cckrobinson @ Aug 1st 2006 11:32AM
Too bad they didn't have a patched Samsung player available to do the comparison. I'm sure HD-DVD will continue to win these head to heads battles until Blu-ray comes out with 50GB disks. Blu-ray is definitely back on their heels right now. I can see no reason to buy a Blu-ray player or any of the titles at this point.
WASD John @ Aug 1st 2006 11:32AM
Once again I have to ask why would I pay twice as much for a player that does nearly the same exact thing?
DLP @ Aug 1st 2006 11:34AM
Time to stock up on coffin nails.
Scott K @ Aug 1st 2006 11:50AM
The third round doesn't make any sense.
HD Tom @ Aug 1st 2006 11:58AM
I think the third round is a typo. It would seem he meant to say " ... compaired to the natural look of HD-DVD"
plaque monster @ Aug 1st 2006 12:18PM
Geez...the next-gen dvd war aint gonna be won in a freakin' month (or year), or based on a few releases playing on first gen hardware.
Steve J @ Aug 1st 2006 12:32PM
Plaque Monster: Agreed
I have no intention of buying into either format until at least second generation hardware... therefore, I am reserving final judgement until then.
HD-DVD has had a strong start, but I see no reason why Blu-ray can't still put up a damn strong fight one they sort out some of the issues that are causing them problems with these first few releases.
Don't forget that very few people actually own either format's players yet, so this intial dent to Blu-ray is not going to be a long-term handicap.
Who will win long-term? No idea. Don't really care to be honest... I just dont think it's wise to count Blu-ray out just yet.
ken52787 @ Aug 1st 2006 12:52PM
I thought that the Blu-Ray players aren't true 1080p yet. From what I've read, they process the image at 1080i and just output at 1080p.
Dave Zatz @ Aug 1st 2006 1:15PM
Is the problem the encoding or is the problem the player or is the problem the format? No way to tell with just one sample this early...
Jason @ Aug 1st 2006 1:19PM
The blu-ray players can't put up a fight yet... they don't have reliable dual layer discs yet... If they don't hurry they will be wasting their time... the Codec really seems to be the problem...
It looks like they are spending too much time trying to get the Blu-Ray techonology just working that they are not spending enough time making sure that they MOVIES look good... that is what this format is for isn't it?
hmurchison @ Aug 1st 2006 1:21PM
Ken the Samsung BD player does output 1080i from the decoder and then ties in a scaler to convert back to 1080p. This is "marchitecture" at best.
Dave the problem likely is MPEG2 at the bitrate required for 25GB Blu-Ray discs is at the threshold where if given more datarate it would probably be equivalent to VC-1 but they can't quite get the video there without a bit of polarization or other anomalies.
Frankly I've always expected both platforms to crank out high quality HD video so I'm been more concerned wtih price and featureset.
Joanna @ Aug 1st 2006 2:32PM
Did anyone else notice that Microsoft is actually advertising the Xbox 360 HD DVD player? We stuck the ad on our site at http://cmd.netblender.com/2006/08/01/media-news-for-81-including-amazon-and-hd-dvd.aspx. Apparently the player's due out around Christmas. This is the first ad we've seen for it -- has anyone seen another?
Tim Bryant @ Aug 1st 2006 7:07PM
GEE what a shock!! Not that any of us are surprised here. Once again HD-DVD comes out on top against Blu-ray. Things are certainly looking much rosier at Toshiba's HD camp. DVDtalk.com just gave their first 5 star picture quality rating of the HD format era to Aeon Flux on HD-DVD. Despite the negative review of the movie itself, it will really lend itself to just more great ammo for HD-DVD owners as awesome pic & sound demo material.
The Jeremy @ Aug 1st 2006 7:14PM
This isn't a fair assessment because Warner Home Video has a vested interest in making sure Blu-Ray fails. Warner Home Video and Toshiba both share patents on the original DVD format. They both have a vested interest in preserving their revenue schemes and ensuring that HD-DVD beats Blu-Ray.
And as such, Warner Home Video is encoding their Blu-Ray releases using the MPEG2 codec instead of the H.264 MPEG4 codec. Automatically, that places their Blu-Ray title releases below that of their VC-1 encoded HD-DVD titles.
I say match an HD-DVD VC-1 release against a Blu-Ray H.264 MPEG4 release and then we'll see which format is indeed better. Here's a hint, it won't be HD-DVD.
pnorth @ Aug 1st 2006 7:34PM
It's funny, everything I've read says that Sony is mandating the MPEG2 on blu-ray titles right now. All sony titles are in MPEG2 as well, so are you faulting sony at the same time? or mearly faulting WB for folowing suit with all other BD titles? Shame on you blu-ray/sony fanboy. So yet again with all things associated with blu-ray and sony - I'll believe it when I see it H.264 on a blu-ray disk ROFL.... Sony isn't a patent holder on that one long live MPEG2!
Tim Bryant @ Aug 1st 2006 9:21PM
Thank you pnorth. IT'S TRUE! Sony is the one dictating to the studios that they use MPEG2 to encode their discs. It's really strange too because Sony has dictated that its Blu-ray format can use the VC1 encodes as well. However they have yet to release a VC1 Blu-Ray disc. Does that not strike anybody as extremely odd? I think there are some other issues going on and Sony is playing catch up on technology that wasn't ready for launch. Sony once again overpromised and under delivered. How are those dual layer discs coming by the way fanboys?
Talkstr8t @ Aug 1st 2006 9:51PM
It's simple. HD-DVD improves on the PQ of DVD and has a better menuing system. Blu-ray also improves on the PQ of DVD, but is a far more future-proofed platform, both in terms of capacity and advanced content. It's a bigger leap technically, and is taking longer to come up to speed, but trying to call the winner of the war less than two months in is absurd.
Mike @ Aug 2nd 2006 3:34AM
I think its a little insane to compare video quality as if either storage media makes a difference. Video stored in a digital format will look the same no matter what the media is.
I know there's currently the MPEG-2 issue, but according to the specs, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray support the same video codecs. Sony (or the BDA) will eventually ditch MPEG-2 in favor of h.264.
All this bickering over pits on a plastic disc. You could put the same damn file on either disc and it would be the same. This fanboy ranting is just ridiculous.
Makes me wonder how many Joystiq readers post here.
GJ @ Aug 2nd 2006 4:28AM
Do you want a format that is going to do right by you someday in the future at $900 for their system, or pay $500 and get the quality RIGHT NOW! Sony want you to have to buy two versions of every Blue Ray movie. You first buy the poor one layer mpeg 2 video version that can match HD-DVD prices but not quality and then a few months later the Deluxe 2 layer editon that finally equals what you could have had on HD-DVD six months early but at a much higher price. By then the HD-DVD movie version will be on sale for less and still look just as sweet as your more expensive BD Deluxe copy. Sony's can't match disc pricing for 2 layer BD to a dual layer HD-DVD due to none ISO standard mastering and poor yield in BD Dual Layer production. So, you are getting poor single layer BD versions of films to match HD-DVD disc priceing now, If we buy their hype about BD (Bigger Disc Size,Studios in their Pockets)and kill the HD-DVD format then comes the true much more expensive BD movies, but with HD-DVD gone where are you going to get HD movies. BAM! Got all us suckers! You BD fanboys and PS3 holdouts can wait, I will enjoying cheaper,better HD-DVD movies now, and you can keep wishing for Sony to get their stuff right at a good price like Toshiba is already doing. GOOD LUCK! It only took about six to ten years for them to stop pushing only ATRAC Format in their audio devices and put MP3,AAC playback in. Lets all hope BD last that long for you guys to get VC-1 and H.264 version of films.
SONY:A Proud History of Poorly Adopted and Supported Formats.
UMD Movies/Games
DAT
Mini Disc
Beta Videotape
DiscMan Books
Memory Stick Duo/Pro
Magic Cap PDA's
The Jeremy @ Aug 2nd 2006 12:29PM
The HD-DVD fanboys are the true morons. They try to act like there's this vast conspiracy over Sony in that it will never transition over to H.264. Hate to break the news to you chaps but Sony has a lot of experience with H.264. In fact, they encode their UMD releases using H.264.
Which leaves me to speculate that the reason why the first Blu-Ray releases are using MPEG2 has to do with the deficiencies of using the current Broadcomm decoder chips in both the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players. When the Sigma Designs decoder chips hit the market and become integrated into the players, I would speculate that Sony will dump MPEG2 and shift over to H.264. They could use VC-1 currently with the previously mentioned deficient Broadcomm chip but Sony doesn't want to pay royalties to Microsoft, and I don't blame them for that.
One should also remember that neither of these formats should be on the market currently. But the HD-DVD camp jumped and released hardware that should have not seen the light of day in a last-ditch effort to shore up their deficient platform, probably at the behest of Microsoft trying to protect projected future royalty payments for iHD and VC-1; both of which they won't be receiving if Blu-Ray wins.
HD-DVD fanbois try to claim that us Blu-Ray supporters are Sony fanbois. Sorry, but Blu-Ray has support from far more companies than HD-DVD. It isn't a "Sony only" platform. Whereas HD-DVD is a Toshiba/Time Warner last ditch patent saving platform that has been sold out to Microsoft to save it.
Tim Bryant @ Aug 2nd 2006 1:23PM
The fact is that HD-DVD IS the superior provider of true HD content on optical discs as of today. It's cheaper,better quality, and Toshiba has addressed firmware issues right away with downloads. Poor Samsung owners have to wait 2 months for a disc patch for a critical error in their machines. Not to mention the fact they paid twice the amount for what is of right now inferior quality. Go online and find a review that states that any BD looks as good or better than an HD disc. Hey but whatever makes you guys feel good about your $1ooo purchase of "THE FUTURE"!!!
Phil @ Aug 2nd 2006 6:19PM
A couple of things to point out here:
1. The Toshiba and Samsung decks use the same Broadcom decoders, so Samsung slapped a custom deinterlacer on the tail end to live up to the 1080"p" mantra driven home so much by the BD camp. Saying that it's a little inaccurate to say the Samsung deck is outputing "true" 1080p. It is not. In fact it would be better to just let the player output 1080i and have an external scaler or a tv deinterlace the image.
2. Mpeg2 on 25Gb discs with space hogging LPCM soundtracks need to go. Chalk up another victory for the HD-DVD camp by mandating Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus, along with DTS-HD. VC-1 combined with space saving next-gen audio codecs is win-win for the consumer. Because BD made these sound formats optional you're far less likely to see them proliferate releases as you will on the HD-DVD releases. PCM sounds great, no doubt, but it's a space hog and with Sony handling authoring for the titles so far mpeg2 is making it hard to justify it's inclusion.
I've no doubt that Warner could make just as good a looking BD release of Training Day as with the HD-DVD version. They just aren't being given the tools they need to make it happen. Sony seems so intent on profiting from BD that they've taken what should have been a slam dunk victory over HD-DVD and basically put the ball in the hands of Toshiba. Pretty amazing, to be sure.
cannedsoda @ Aug 3rd 2006 12:04AM
I don't think anyone is calling the war over. The clear leader at this date and time is HD-DVD with better picture quality, a much lower price, and more titles.
Picture quality is very important as it's the primary reason to jump from current DVD. But it doesn't appear to be a huge difference. As someone posted earlier, Betamax supposedly had better picture quality than VHS.
So yes this gives HD-DVD the lead but the the ultimate factors will be price and titles.
I definitely don't care who wins but it's funny that on the Blu-ray fanboys posts you could replace Blu-ray with PS3 and HD-DVD with 360 and it could go right onto the joystiq site.
Jake @ Aug 3rd 2006 12:38AM
I'm not an HD-DVD "fanboy". I was all about Blu-ray and had looked at HD-DVD displays at my Best Buy for months just knowing I would have my Samsung player soon. Then the bottom fell out when the reviews came pooring in and I got to see The Fifth Element on Blu-ray for myself. My jaw dropped. I was sure there was something wrong with their setup. I was just dismayed at what I saw of what was supposed to be a premier BD launch title. I went home,did more research and came to the conclusion that at this time,HD was the way to go. Price,quality, and just better movies as of today. Then I saw what it could do to my regular DVD's. Im in HD heaven now. I'm watching alot of my old stuff too cause it looks so great upscaled on the HDA1 player. It's an unbelievable value even if HD happens to fail as a format. It's off to a brilliant start though. I don't think anyone would have predicted what is going on right now so early in the HD format wars. Go TOSHIBA!!!
Lyndon @ Aug 5th 2006 10:27AM
... but it really is winning the battle!