Pioneer releases "1080p-compatible" 720p plasmas
This is becoming a trend. Much like the just announced Hitachi plasma line, Pioneer's flat-panels will accept a 1080p/24hz signal via two HDMI inputs, but downscale it to display on a 1024x768 screen. The PDP-4270HD, PDP-5070HD and PDP-6070HD are available now and will retail for $3,500, $4,500 and $7,500, respectively. The 50- and 70-inch models have a native resolution of 1365x768. The sets feature detachable bottom-mounted speakers, ATSC and NTSC tuners, CableCard support and 3:3 pulldown for film-based material. They've also made many improvements to the construction of the screen (Crystal Emissive Layer, red and blue phosphors, color filter, etc.) to improve viewing quality.
It seems not-1080p has a new wrinkle, where first we had TVs that displayed it and couldn't accept it, we are now seeing a bevy of of panels that accept it but don't display it. A few posters on AVS Forum were very impressed by the glass technology in earlier models and anticipate even better performance with 1080p inputs, but we're not convinced. Anyone out there ready to drop 3 large on a 1024x768 plasma and tell us how satisfying it is?
As it stands, we will likely have to wait until Pioneer ships their (now-delayed) Blu-ray player before we get a true 1080p plasma.
[Updated native resolution of 50- and 70-inch, title for clarity]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Pete @ Jun 8th 2006 9:24PM
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of 1080p? Its not delevering the full pixel resolution, but says its compatible, so people are going to look at it and say "1080p doesn't look all that much better than what I have". I hope its clearly explained to anyone interested in this TV...dissapointing
Simon Reidy @ Jun 8th 2006 10:09PM
While I agree that it's a far cry short of a true 1080p display, 1080/24p input/processing does offer a couple of major benefits on ANY HD display:
1. No de-interlacing required. Therefore no chance of inferior bob de-interlacing or incorrect weaving (causing loss of resolution, combing or interpolation artefacts). You simply get a neat progressive down-scale from 1080p to 768p.
2. No 3:2 judder! This is a huge benefit allowing faithful 3:3 pull-down for HD 1080p material resulting in clean judder free movement at 72hz.
3. The lack of any intensive processing/de-interlacing should theoretically result in a sharper cleaner picture.
Sure its doesn’t compare to a true 1080p display, but 1080p input is still a very worthwhile addition to any quality 720p/768p HD display.
Dave @ Jun 8th 2006 11:14PM
I agree with Simon--but I still think it's very misleading. The problem is that most consumers are going out of their way to learn some of the terminology to make sure they don't blow $3K on something that isn't as future-proof as possible--but they're not likely to go far enough. As it stands, I've heard that a large number of HDTV owners don't have their sets connected properly and are watching their new HDTVs with SD-only signal inputs.
Simon Reidy @ Jun 9th 2006 12:57AM
That's true Dave. I agree that although 1080p input is a worthwhile addition, it can certainly translate into misleading marketing and further customer confusion.
Regarding people using SD inputs on their HD displays, I see it all the time. Here in Australia it's even worse, as we have separate SD and HD Digital TV systems (simulcast at the same time). You'd be amazed how many people buy shiny new HD displays and pair it up with a SD STB via S-Video (or worse, composite) and think they are watching HDTV. Hell, half the people I have talked to think DVDs are HD! We certainly have a long way to go with regular consumers and the HD transition...
Rymix @ Jun 9th 2006 7:26AM
I know this has been discussed to death already, but it really is about time that the industry made all this stuff easier to understand.
Just the other day my dad was asking me if he should get "a digital TV for when they turn off analogue and we all have to go HD". (I'm in the UK, and analogue signals will cease to be broadcast in about 5 years' time.)
My dad doesn't know much about this sort of technology, but he's clearly read or heard something, and got himself into a complete mess.
My father-in-law, who is slightly more technically-minded, was recently quizzing me about "true HD vs 720p, because 720p is crap, right?" Again, he has some idea of the reality, but not enough to make an informed decision.
And now manufacturers are touting their TVs as "1080p-compatible", but actually underdelivering on the expectation born of their promise. Not many people understand upscaling, or, now, downscaling. You can bet that the shop assistant won't know any more than the customer, and we'll end up with lots of people buying TVs they will never full utilise, and lots of people buying sets that they think are better than they actually are.
I think we need some sort of universal scale or star rating system for picture input and output capabilities. Imagine something along the lines of:
Two columns; one for input signal and one for output. From top to bottom are the ratings: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 720i, 480p. And somewhere beside this graph is the TV's native resolution, for absolute clarity.
Each TV would have ticks in the relevant boxes, making it far easier for Joe Public to understand at least the basic input and output capabilities they are sbout to shell-out their hard-earned cash for.
I know this idea would need a lot of work to make it accurate and universally acceptable, but who do you lot reckon?
GhostDoggy @ Jun 9th 2006 8:54AM
They manufacturers have been doing the 'XYZ compatible' for years. And they know what they are doing, which is to pull the wool over the heads of ignorant cowsumers to lazy to educate themselves and learn to ask the right questions.
Hopefully websites will continue to develop for more and more cowsumers to become better educated and see the devils for what they are: devils.
Galley @ Jun 9th 2006 10:05AM
Drops means "stops selling" not "announces". This isn't the hip-hop world where albums "drop" onto the market.
cv @ Jun 9th 2006 11:13AM
The 50 and 60 are 1365 X 768, not 1024 X 768 displays.
Simon Reidy @ Jun 9th 2006 7:53PM
In response to Rymix’s suggestions of ..
“I think we need some sort of universal scale or star rating system for picture input and output capabilities. Imagine something along the lines of:
Two columns; one for input signal and one for output. From top to bottom are the ratings: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 720i, 480p. And somewhere beside this graph is the TV's native resolution, for absolute clarity.”
That is one of the best ideas I have heard in ages. Start writing to manufacturers, AV journalists and other industry experts! I’m serious. I think something like this is desperately needed and could really catch on.
-------------
In response to Galley’s comment of …
“Drops means "stops selling" not "announces". This isn't the hip-hop world where albums "drop" onto the market.”
Exactly. Thought the same thing myself. Drop means “to discard”.
icerabbit @ Jun 9th 2006 11:59PM
I second that. From the headline I thought Pioneer quit making whatever in favor of something better, like true 1080.
PioLover @ Jun 10th 2006 11:36AM
Why doesn't anyone mention that up to this point it has been pretty much impossible to have a 1080p plasma. When Pioneer does "introduce" their PRO-FHD1 that it will be the worlds first 50" 1080p plasma...one step at a time folks...I don't see anyone else in the plasma game coming out with a 1080p panel at 50". So while i'm sure we're all a little bit disappointed now...i'm sure we'll all be happy in the near future with Pioneer's offerings
Rymix @ Jun 11th 2006 3:22PM
"Start writing to manufacturers, AV journalists and other industry experts! I’m serious. I think something like this is desperately needed and could really catch on."
I'm one lone consumer voice, easy to ignore. However, what if a certain ever-so-slightly-popular family of techie blogs got on to the case?
HDBeat could join forces with Engadget and help make this suggestin become a reality. There could be an online petition, and I'm sure the writers have contacts in the industry to help make our cause heard...
MrSatyre @ Jun 13th 2006 1:10PM
Everyone knows that a 42" panel doesn't need more than 1024x768 if the processing is done correctly; that's pretty small real estate, so cramming more pixels into it is uber-expensive because you'd have to make them smaller and still make them perform at the same levels as the larger cells (that's why the 1080p monitor costs so much more).
mike b @ Oct 2nd 2006 12:02PM
I am picking up my pdp 4270 tomorrow. I was going back and forth between the 4270, the 5070 or the Sony 46" xbr3. I decided i would go with the 4270 so I could move it to my office in 3 years and get a true hd 50" plasma. My wife would never let me scrap a tv I spent $3500 on in just 3 years. BTW I was able to get the 4270 for $2200 at PC Richards. I purchased a 5yr full replacement warranty for $360. I hate warranties and never seem to use them. I would never have purchased one for a LCD tv, but I am new to plasma technology. Any opinions on purchasing warranties for plasmas?
Paul S @ Jul 30th 2007 3:56PM
I just yesterday saw a 1080P Blue Ray disc connected to a Pioneer 50" with regular hd resolution of 768 (tad above 720p norm) and it looked incredibly good because it was doing so with 24 bit processing via its scaler. I know of no other brand of tv that can do this. Next to it they had a Sony XBR3 1080P panel, and it looked only slightly better than the the Pioneer when the Blue Ray was playing. On regular 1080I signals, the Sony had a lot of "noise" while the Pioneer had none. Watching a film clip showing cars doing 25mph you could see the Sony was blurry, while the Pioneer was crystal clear. Unless you are going to watch blue ray 95% of the time, and regular high def only 5%, 1080P is not that significant a factor in the buying process. The Pioneer Elite 50" 1080P model is $3000 more, so the scaling ability of the regular Pioneer is a great savings for someone who only plans on watching a few Blue Ray dvd's a week.
jcurran01 @ Dec 28th 2007 2:13PM
"1080p doesn't look all that much better than what I have". I hope its clearly explained to anyone interested in this TV...dissapointing"
YEA NO KIDDING.
THEY TOTALLY Duped me. They dont explain it in the specs and I thought it ran 1080p.
I'm VERY ANGRY with Pioneer.
robert @ Oct 23rd 2008 4:54PM
Can anyone tell me if i buy a blu ray player and have a samsung 720p plasma tv
is it compatible or upconvert to 1080p.