The Intel Macmini is perfect for HDTV
I am the most excited about the mention of the resolutions; in the past you would have to use a third party product such as DisplayConfigX to get your Mac mini to output the correct resolution, now it seems it's supported by OSX. This in combination with the overscan adjustment built into to the display preferences is very impressive. Audio was considered as well as the new Mac mini includes SPDIF in and out so you can enjoy DD 5.1 in all it's glory.
Now all we need are HD movies via iTunes and life would be perfect. I am of course assuming that the Core Solo 1.5 is fast enough to decode H.264 HD material. Even though I just got my MacBook Pro I am off to Apple.com to order a new Mac mini!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dan in DCVA @ Feb 28th 2006 3:42PM
I like it. My credit card is itching.
This is pretty much what the first mac mini should have been. They knew the lack of SPDIF was an omission the first time around, but Steve was not completely sold on the idea of the mini and wanted to only use existing laptop parts to reduce the costs.
I'm worried about the graphics card though. Will the GMA950 be solid enough? It would have been more reassuring if it sported an nVidia or Ati label.
Here's extreme tech's review:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1821804,00.asp
According to them, it should be fine for DVD, but not 3D gaming. Can we assume we shouldn't worry about 2D HD content?
The most important question is really:
How well will VLC run on it?
ventivent @ Feb 28th 2006 3:46PM
When this was announced this afternoon, I was about to go straight to apple.com and place my order. I figured this would look awesome with a DVI-HDMI hookup to my recently acquired HP md5880n. Then I stopped myself and thought, well...no PVR, no NTSC or ATSC tuner, small amout of storage, integrated graphics too slow to play any kind of games, plus I like to surf the net AND watch TV simultaneously, not switch back and forth between the two. I'll hold off for the time being, but a decent effort by Apple nonetheless.
Ben Drawbaugh @ Feb 28th 2006 3:53PM
Yes the graphics card is a bit concerning. If you want a tuner you can buy a EyeTV 500 from Elgato. Personally I don't care about it. I would prefer to have downloadable content but I guess we will have to wait for the real Video Ipod for that. I am predicting April 1st 2006.
I decided to hold off till I saw one in action. The MacBook Pro can handle HDTV no problem so the cheaper Macmini may be able to handle it too. I am going to try to demo some H.264 HD content at the Apple store before making my purchase. The faster version is a little too expensive for a HTPC, at least for me since I already have a MCE box.
Durvivor @ Feb 28th 2006 3:56PM
This is very close to a good Apple movie jukebox if they will go ahead and support playback of VIDEO_TS using Front Row.
AR @ Feb 28th 2006 3:58PM
I don't understand how one port (see the picture) can be "headphones/audio out/optical out"
Chris Wickersham @ Feb 28th 2006 3:59PM
Question I have is this: Will the updated prefs for HD resolutions and overscan be available as an update to Tiger for my older powermac (which I would love to use with my HDTV) or will I still have to futz around with 3rd party apps?
Chris
mr. Obsession @ Feb 28th 2006 4:13PM
I would be surprised if the high-end Mini can playback EyeTV 500 HD files successfully. My new Intel Imac 2Ghz can't handle them without dropping frames, but HD trailers from Quicktime's site playback without any problems. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't see how an obviously slower machine (with lower graphics capability) could pull it off.
Ben Drawbaugh @ Feb 28th 2006 4:18PM
The MacBook pro has more than enough power to playback EyeTV 500 files but EyeTV's software isn't universal yet, which is why it won't play. As soon as EyeTV releases a universal binary of their software you will be able to play the files back no problem. Right now I am using a universal version of VLC to play them back.
I believe that the slower Mini will be able to do it also. I am not willing to bet on it yet, as soon as I comfirm this I will report back.
Carlos Ariza @ Feb 28th 2006 4:26PM
Chris, I was wondering the same thing. I really hope that Apple is able to provide us with HD resolutions and overscan in the next update of OSX. However, this may be tied into that integrated Intel GFX chip the mini is using.
AR - one port can handle both analog audio over copper wire and optical audio with an optical cable that has a optical mini jack on one end. see the link.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1558&seq=1&format=2&style=
TexRob @ Feb 28th 2006 4:46PM
"5. I don't understand how one port (see the picture) can be "headphones/audio out/optical out"
It's a cool little connector, shoots light up the tip of a connector, SPDIF optical mini or something like that is the connector name. If you plug in a regular stereo mini, it just ignores the light because it doesn't know any better. Plug in one of those and it ignores the electrical connections and looks for the light at the end.
TexRob @ Feb 28th 2006 4:47PM
So my question is, anyone know if there is a DVD player that supports upconversion of DVDs for OSX? Somehow I doubt it, but sure would be cool.
CupertinoSlim @ Feb 28th 2006 4:55PM
Not quite perfect. It has a DVI rather than HDMI video port, which limits its potential usefulness as an HD PVR. That's not necessarily a deal breaker for many users, but worth noting. And it's DVD playback doesn't look quite as good as a dedicated unit, but it's not bad either.
AR, the audio input and output ports are indeed combination optical and mini-plug ports.
Travis Bell @ Feb 28th 2006 4:56PM
There doesn't need to be a DVD player that upconverts them for you... if you are outputing your resolution at (for example) 1280x720, in DVD player go to full screen, Quartz Extreme will do all the filtering and upconverting for you since your desktop resolution is higher than the 720x480p the DVD most likely is.
What I am most concerned with is playing HD .ts and .mpg files since my Powerbook 1.5Ghz G4 simply IS NOT fast enough. The second I hear the Intel Core Duo is fast enough to play them without dropping any frames I will give it a serious look.
Ben Drawbaugh @ Feb 28th 2006 4:58PM
CupertinoSlim,
Among the list of accessories is a DVI to HDMI adaptor so no limit there.
Dave Zatz @ Feb 28th 2006 5:00PM
The fact that it supports these high resolutions, digital audio out, and the updated version of Bonjour for audio/video streaming definitely implies feature legnth movie downloads are on the way! Having said that, I have no desire to buy this and hook it to my TV (which uses HDMI).
Ben Drawbaugh @ Feb 28th 2006 5:05PM
Travis Bell,
The Core Dou has more than enough power to play any HD file you can throw at it now. The limitation at the moment is software which will evolve alot over the next few months.
Look for my full report on HD and the Core Dou later this week. It is taking me more time to test everything then I would have thought plus I have been spending the last week playing with my new MacBook Pro. ;)
mr. Obsession @ Feb 28th 2006 5:17PM
"Right now I am using a universal version of VLC to play them back."
You were right...downloading the latest VLC Universal Build does allow me to playback EyeTV 500 TS files without dropping any frames on my Intel Imac...thanks for the tip!
If the new Minis do end up being able to do the same, it totally redfines the possibilities for me. I'll be watching for a test!
Ed @ Feb 28th 2006 5:29PM
Just a note about the G4 mini-- it supported 1280x720 just fine without extra software for my Mitsubishi DLP TV...
Ed @ Feb 28th 2006 5:33PM
#13:
The core duo 1.83GHz is fast enough for H.264 1920x1080 video at 24 fps. Verified on my Sony SZ laptop using Windows Quicktime on the GMA950 video chipset. 1.66GHz core duo should be plenty fine, since my laptop only uses 50-60% of available processing power (2 cores). the 1.5GHz Core solo might not be enough though...
mr. Obsession @ Feb 28th 2006 5:37PM
"Just a note about the G4 mini-- it supported 1280x720 just fine without extra software for my Mitsubishi DLP TV..."
Does anyone else have a G4 mini that can push HD content consistantly? This is the first report I've heard of someone pulling it off without dropping frames on a regular basis...I know that the general consensus (including Apple) is that it wasn't possible.
Consider yourself lucky!
Ben Drawbaugh @ Feb 28th 2006 5:42PM
mr. Obsession,
I believe you misunderstood him. He is connecting his mini to his pc and using that resolution he doesn't ever say he tried to playback HD material.
It is only possible in iMovieHD which is because it uses some uncomprssed format that requires less cpu.
mr. Obsession @ Feb 28th 2006 5:53PM
Thanks for clearing that up, Ben. I did misunderstand.
Ed @ Feb 28th 2006 5:58PM
Obsession,
Yeah, sorry, the mini G4 can't play HD compressed content well at all. But it does upconvert DVDs fine... If only it had a decent deinterlacing DVD player
Anyways, I am eBaying my old mini G4 and ordered the new mini. The gigabit, core duo, and optical audio were more than enough to convince me to upgrade.
applecurious @ Feb 28th 2006 6:14PM
With only one video port, how does the HD signal get into the Mini?
Brian @ Feb 28th 2006 6:30PM
I was hoping the next Apple Mini would be a full blown DVR media center with CableCard support....wouldn't that be amazing! Microsoft will not support cable card until Vista is released which gives Apple time to beat MS to market with a cablecard media center. If Apple were to build this before Windows Vista comes out with CableCard support it would be an amazing product that would probably convert a whole bunch of Windows Media Center users to the Mac.
The only bad thing is it would be one more nail in Tivo's coffin...and I really don't want to see them go out of business.
Keep dreaming..huh.
Dillon Bussert @ Feb 28th 2006 6:34PM
"Not quite perfect. It has a DVI rather than HDMI video port, which limits its potential usefulness as an HD PVR. That's not necessarily a deal breaker for many users, but worth noting."
DVI is compatible with HDMI, I'm using a $8 converter cable from my PC HTPC and it works flawlessly. You don't get sound over the HDMI, but you have digital audio, so the only thing you lack is the 1 cable solution, instead you have 2.
mr. Obsession @ Feb 28th 2006 6:42PM
"With only one video port, how does the HD signal get into the Mini?"
The EyeTV 500 brings HD in via a Firewire port.
Thom Brooks @ Feb 28th 2006 7:42PM
Check out the URL in my name:
I have been using a Mac mini as a HTPC with two EyeTV 500's and an EyeTV 200 for the past year with very few issues. That having been said, I wished for a digital output. I was really unhappy with the M-Audio Sonica Theater USB, so today's announcement made me really happy. I already ordered my new Mac mini today. I have no doubts in its ability to play HD content.
Be warned: Just because the machine supports the resolution, make sure your TV properly *advertises* all of its resolutions. I ended up buying a 'DVI Detective' box from Gefen so that my mini would consistently output 1366x768 resolution. Otherwise, every time I turned the TV off and on again, the EDID information would not transmit properly and it would go to 1280 x 1024 or some other resolution.
Also - leave incoming VLC/ARD access to the machine ON in case you need to use another machine to get in and fix it if the resolution gets set wrong, eg with DisplayConfigX and so forth. Possibly also cscreen (command line) and Remote Login (ssh) turned on. Trust me on this one! Save yourself a big headache.
That having been said, I'm very happy with the current mini and my Sharp Aquos, and I'm looking forward to getting my new mini very soon now.
I love the ElGato products (the EyeTV boxes and software are great; I wasn't that impressed with the EyeHome and it doesn't do HD anything) and recommend them to people. Sometimes they offer refurb units cheaper on their site, by the way.
Hope this helps! Feel free to email me via the info on my website if you have questions. I also recommend checking out http://avsforum.com/ for TONS of good information about this stuff.
Thom Brooks
Chicago, IL
Fred S @ Feb 28th 2006 10:35PM
The Mac Mini cannot play Quicktime HD content above 480p according to the Quicktime requirements listed on Apple page. 720p requires a 1.83 or better and 1080p requires a 2.0 Duo. Now these maybe over-estimated, but that is what the documentation states. quicktime reqs
MacHata @ Mar 1st 2006 2:02AM
This machine will not be that good as a Media Center PC because apple had to go the cheap route with Integrated Graphics. Being able to support a resolution is one thing, but what about video play back?
ATI and Nvida put a lot of work into thier video decoders, which is the single most important factor in video quality playback.
Good luck finding a decent H.264 decoder for the Intel card. ATI already has a decoder developer, and Nvidia's should be out soon. That means that the new mini mac with need a software decoder. No good.
digitalgopher @ Mar 1st 2006 2:47AM
this is BS.
NO WAY that the integrated video is enough to handle HD video. I have a dedicated 3D Nvidia card on my HTPC and it still struggles with HD video.
Scott @ Mar 1st 2006 3:02AM
Well I was hoping for a Mac Mini DVR, but without a tuner and software, no such luck. Also, the graphics card converns me. And if it's still using 5400 RPM drives, like the previous Mini, then I/O performance is gonna take a hit as well.
Jim W @ Mar 1st 2006 3:25AM
"NO WAY that the integrated video is enough to handle HD video. I have a dedicated 3D Nvidia card on my HTPC and it still struggles with HD video."
Have to agree, I too have serious doubts that the integrated chip will handle the HD video the way people are hoping. Have visited some other forums on this and the general consensus among people who seem to know the GMA950 chip is that it won't handle it. Only time will tell I guess, waiting for benchmarks on this would be wise. I want one too but will play it safe ;)
Sam_dal @ Mar 1st 2006 3:44AM
I will wait for the next version when it will be able to play HD-DVD (I am sure it is coming) and output 1080p using HDMI/DVI+SPDIF with a black exterior color to fit along with rest of my components. Hopefully by then 802.11n is standardized and devices are in the market so that I donot have to run wires from it to my router ;)
lonewolf @ Mar 1st 2006 5:31AM
I have done lots of tests playing HDTV on Macs. I don't have G5 Powermacs
but I have played 1080i and 720p HDTV movies (mostly MPEG2 TS
files) on the following machines, using same version of VLC throughout:
Mac Mini 1.42GHz G4, 1GB RAM, 32MB VRAM
Powerbook 1.67GHz G4, 1GB RAM, 64MB VRAM
iMac G5 1.8GHz G5, 768MB RAM, 64MB VRAM
The Mac mini and the G4 PB plays 720p content smoothly although
sometimes you can see some jitter in fast moving scenes on the mini.
Both systems can't play 1080i smoothly enough to be watchable.
CPU load on both systems is around 90% during 720p playback,
almost 100% during 1080i playback.
The iMac G5 plays 1080i content smoothly enough to be watchable. I did
not test it connected to a HDTV (due to no DVI port on the iMac)
but I believe it would not make a difference to the playback. CPU load
is almost 100% during the playback, while it was only around 50% during
720p playback.
I noticed that the results are quite consistent no matter what the format
of the movie is (MPEG2 TS, H.264, XviD).
I now use Mac mini connected to a Sharp Aquos LCD TV as my media
center and generally just play 720p content using VLC. For 1080i,
I use a trick in EyeTV to play it but EyeTV player will scale it down
to quarter the original resolution during playback. I can notice the
difference when I'm seated around 6ft from my TV but not when further
than that.
I've been waiting for a new Mac mini to replace my existing one, but
I'm beginning to think that a dual core 1.66GHz Intel still won't be able
to playback 1080i smoothly enough. My rationale is that software players
such as VLC will not take advantage of the two cores in the CPU so you
end up with just one core doing the decoding. So it will be almost the same
as playing back 1080i on the 1.67GHz G4. The system bus is faster but
I still think CPU speed is the key parameter. Whether it's integrated
graphics card or not is irrelevant I think.
Anyway, I'm scheduling to get down to an Apple store soon to try out the
new Minis with some 1080i files and hope that I'm wrong. If someone
get a chance to test this first, please post the results here. Thanks
Aeris @ Mar 1st 2006 5:41AM
>>"Not quite perfect. It has a DVI rather than HDMI video port, which limits its potential usefulness as an HD PVR."
Well, only until DeAACS comes along.
Oneoffmanmental @ Mar 1st 2006 5:48AM
Travis: My IBM T42 Centrino 1.7Ghz is more than capable of playing HD MPEG-2. HD H.264 AVC struggles in QuickTime, but plays back perfectly in VLC or ffmpeg.
Once Apple optimize playback for Intel CPUs, there's no reason the Mac Mini wont be able to handle these formats.
lonewolf @ Mar 1st 2006 6:07AM
The reason why I believe integrated or dedicated graphics won't make
a difference for HD playback on a Mac is because software players
on OSX today can't use the GPU for decoding. With the exception
of QT but QT can't handle so many formats that it's not really useable
for serious HD playback:
- it won't play MPEG2 TS (even with the MPEG2 component installed)
- it does not handle AC3 audio (the AC3 plugin does not work
50% of the time. this is consistent accross versions 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4.
Also QT updates always seem to break it)
- it really does not play DivX and XviD reliably enough. and QT updates
have habit of breaking the plugins most of the time.
So unless all HD content is delivered via H.264, the most reliable HD player
on OSX is really VLC. But unfortunately, VLC can't use GPUs on Macs
for decoding.
Victor @ Mar 1st 2006 6:59AM
I'll wait for Blue-Ray + HD playback on the drive...you know that DVD movies will be rereleased in the high definition format. Same with the graphics card...I'll let others test this one first.
Sigh, probably next year with Leopard, iLife 07, better graphics card, Blue-Ray/HD, larger hard drive and faster processor...then I'll buy a mac-mini for the home entertainment center.
Ben Drawbaugh @ Mar 1st 2006 8:00AM
Here is a choice quote by s0ny from digg which I think sums up the integrated video situation perfectly.
"Guys, the integrated video isn't bad for this. Yeah, it wont run 30fps games, but if your buying a mac just to play games then your retarded. Apple could never fit a video card in a mini with 256MB or anything equivalent to play HD material for the price point, the integrated graphics allows the mini to run normal stuff with 80MB of ram, but for when your playing 1080p material it can use as much memory as needed. Personally I think its a smart move and regardless it is a step up over the previous 9200."
Patrick @ Mar 1st 2006 8:39AM
I really want my Mini to be a PVR.
What hardware/software could I use to do this??
Mark @ Mar 1st 2006 8:40AM
"headphones/audio out/optical out"
outside | inside
|
--v---v---+
----cable---->
Sysadmn @ Mar 1st 2006 9:10AM
Clever - it's the mac for your HDTV only if all your content comes from a DVD or the network. Until EyeTV updates the software, I doubt it will capture or display in real time. According to http://www.osxhax.com/archives/000063.html, the 1.42 GHz mini was able to drive 720p and 1080i content from EyeTV, so the Intel ought to also.
Tom @ Mar 1st 2006 9:15AM
According to Apple's site, for 1280x720 HD, A Intell dual core 2.0 proceccor is required. Mini is only 1.66. Looks like it will NOT play HD.
Daniel @ Mar 1st 2006 10:47AM
that all sounds fantastic, but im extremely doubtful that the low-end mac mini solo processor would be powerful enough to decode full HD h.264
l0ne @ Mar 1st 2006 11:26AM
The Core Duo processor should be quite fast -- it's a "G5-class" processor (as it can compete with low-end G5 processors on speed). It should be able to handle most 2D HD media without a hitch. Not so with 3D content, of course, but nobody buys a Mac to play.
Huh, Bonjour sharing simply adds iTunes and iPhoto's Shared Music/Photos folders to the Front Row interface. There is no other significant update or anything else, aside from occasional bug fixes, in the new Front Row release.
NoPCZone @ Mar 1st 2006 11:51AM
In an earlier post a comment was made about EyeTV 500's and HD content under Rosetta. I own a 20" Core Duo iMac and an EyeTV 500 and there is no problem recording or playing HD (720 or 1080), just not at the same time. For time shifting, which is what I use mine for, it is OK. A few motion adaptive artifacts on some content with a very 'busy' image set (think sports) but O.K. until the Universal Binary comes out.
Thom Brooks @ Mar 1st 2006 12:23PM
Correction - in my earlier post (around #28?) I said VLC when I meant VNC... eg *be able to remote control* your new machine, in case you screw up screen resolution! I cannot say this enough times.
* * *
From ElGato's site:
"EyeTV 2.0.1 Update
EyeTV 2.0.1 requires a G4 with a speed of at least 500 MHz, a G5 Power Macintosh, or an iMac with Intel Core Duo processor, and Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) or later. We recommend Mac OS X 10.4.4 with all software and security updates installed.
EyeTV 2.0.1 runs in the Rosetta environment on Intel Macintosh computers. A "universal binary" version of EyeTV 2 will be available as a free update shortly."
* * *
I can only assume they have not yet updated that page to include, 'an iMac or Mac mini with core duo'... I'm sort of surprised it doesn't mention the MacBook Pro... nevertheless, I wrote to ElGato tech support to confirm with them, and to ask whether the introduction of the Universal version will lower the requirements any (since it'll take less processing power to run natively...)
vinbot @ Mar 1st 2006 12:44PM
Are you SURE the Mini sound card supports 5.1 audio? Just because there is an optical SPDIF out doesn't NECESSARILY mean the computer outputs as 5.1. My Powerbook has SPDIF, but from what I've been told, it doesn't support surround sound.
Apple really needs to be clearer about the SPDIF standard. The average person doesn't know what cable they need to hook up their home theatre system to their mac's SPDIF. Their website contains NO REAL INFORMATION on this subject. I had to search high and low on the internet just to find the correct cable. BAD Apple!
Shane @ Mar 1st 2006 1:30PM
If it had a PVR option (even a crappy one like Windows Media Center PC's offer) I would buy one today!